Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

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Hetakin
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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by Hetakin »

Hi,
Me and a friend, we don't like this design. In particular, we really enjoy the thirst approach (see below) it seems to be an alien construction.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by boeljoet »

I always feels like the beacon needs consist of 2 parts.
1 you got the cabin base were you put the modules, 2 you got the transmitting area.
the cabin can be quite square as it is the service area with all the hardware. something like a server cabin maybe with a glas panel infront.
the antenna i would take a look at mobile cell phone mast.



for me this does not represent that i can put modules in it. it would be cool have some kind of indication of what beacons are inside it or if its empty. (not just here but on all beaconed items)
either by using module slots or????

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by TeZwo »

I like the new concept. But I think the principle of the "sending plates" on the mast is actually better. The basic question, how does the beacon send its power to the neighbouring buildings?

The basic idea of a tesla coil or generally what Nikola Tesla had in mind. Pure energy transmitted through the air.
I would like to see the surrounding buildings connect with each other as it happens with walls in factorio.

for Example: The Istra Tesla Research Center
https://www.google.com/search?q=tesla+istra

and also why not do a general game change, 2x2 beacons with only one slot? ;)
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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by quyxkh »

Beacons en masse shouldn't dominate the view. Having that big yellow patch so high and large distracts the eye from what they're there for, the assemblers and smelters themselves.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by Oktokolo »

I like the new tesla tower design. The new low-range high-dps area-of-effect defense will be the perfect addition to flame trower setups.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by McDuff »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:10 pm

I like the way some mods have re-adapted beacons into "racks" that aim to expand the functions of a very limited number of machines or even just one. Like adding modules, but modules that take up physical space. Then you upgrade the "rack". The precise opposite mentality to other venerable mods where there's 5 tiers of every single machine and you spend half your time running around replacing machines with green- and purple-tinted versions of the exact same thing. But the vanilla minigame of optimally packing space with various rectangles has little appeal, personally. The whole thing with modules both inside and outside machines is just ... odd.
What mods are those?

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by McDuff »

Ranakastrasz wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:55 pm


I wonder if non-stacking beacons is moddable....
There's a mod called "Beacon Interference" which does that.

I'd quite like to see a fresh approach to the beacon mechanic in general. Non-overlapping, or cable transmission. Something to make the "effect transmission" mechanic work with less than just trying to cram beacons into a smaller space.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by Molay »

While not a fan of the redesign for the reasons mentioned by many people over and over, I want to highlight that I abhor the idea of variations/random rotations. I want the base to have a clean look. Those variations are a net negative in my opinion. They're awesome for trees and ores, and I'd enjoy more variations on the biter nests, but please not in my factory. It doesn't fit and makes little sense to boot, considering the mass-produced nature of machines.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by nicmac »

T__C wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:48 pm
I have a suggestion which I haven't seen mentioned here yet: Why don't you come up with an explanation for how the beacon actually works, then build its design around that?

If the beacon works by constantly analyzing the manufacturing process, eking out productivity gains through opportunistic adjustments, then portray it as a bank of computers, meters, and status lights.

If the beacon works by rapidly replacing worn parts, allowing factories to run hotter than they would otherwise, then portray it as a little repair factory, with streams of small parts flowing in and out from underground conduits.

If the beacon works by drenching the factories' critical parts in lubricant and/or coolant, then portray it as a tank and pump assembly.

If the beacon works by projecting magical productivity rays, then I suppose the proposed design is just about right.
I also do enjoy thinking about the processes and inner workings of things.
Factorio is especially well suited since it's very engineering related.. Mechanical, electrical, chemical..
So I also have a hard time entertaining how a structure effectively beams or radiates speed/productivity.

I agree that the new design feel out of place in the Factorio world even though it looks pretty cool on its own.
As so many have said, it looks more alien/organic than human-built.

For example, we could choose the beacon's boost when building -- requiring the modules at that build stage -- and therefore have a few different purpose-specific designs? Would be more work for you guys, but in my mind, that would make a lot of sense.

Thanks for your hard work

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by FuzzyOne »

Wow, I really appreciate just how open the Factorio team is with their design process. Thank you very much.

What I like with how the new design is proceeding:
  • First, I'm liking how the design process is going.
  • Second, I like the "in-ground" design. I think that works well to give the current tower the height it needs to the sphere part.
  • Third, the sphere is not bad.
What I am not such a fan of:
  • First, not sure about the "sword" on to as others have mentioned as this is like a long-range Ham Radio antenna.
  • Second, the red is too intense or aggressive.
What I think it could be:
  • Primarily: The perspective that this is a beacon = electromagnetic transmission which typically goes a long distance. I think that it might help the design to go in a better direction if instead it was thought of like a projector which is usually more short distance.
  • Going with the short-range projector idea, I think it would look good if it was designed like an old-fashioned over-head transparency projector with a steam-punk holographic update.
  • There would be a silo holding the two modules and illuminating them.
  • Just like on the old-fashioned projector, have a supporting arm coming from say the lower-left corner (or multiple corners) to hold the projector head in place above the silo.
  • The projector head would have, instead of one projector lens/mirror just like the old fashioned one, multiple lenses/mirrors specifically angled to each target the beacon is enhancing. So if it is enhancing one target, the head would have one lens/mirror angled at that target. If it has 8 targets, then it would have 8 lenses/mirrors attached to the head. This would provide variation to the design that is functionally driven.
TL;DR;
Think of the beacon more like a projector rather than an EM radiator and use a design based on the old-fashioned overhead transparency projector with a steam-punk holographic update using silo to hold the mod chips and a head incorporating facets towards each specific target that is engaged.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by Deadlock989 »

Rseding91 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:51 pm
Deadlock989 wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:10 pm
IronCartographer wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:05 pm
To the first, and I don't mean to derail discussion here, but: Have you considered the possible evils of "burner" beacons with beacon-specific modules as a "fuel" type so they get burned up and beacons require input, complicating beacon layouts? :P
Unfortunately beacons can only have an electric or void energy source, like roboports, presumably due to GUI limitations.
It's because burner and fluid energy sources are absolutely terrible for performance.
Would that matter, if vanilla never uses them?

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by Deadlock989 »

McDuff wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:38 am
What mods are those?
Can't remember ... was it Krastorio Legacy? I'm sure I've seen beacons reskinned as server racks. Maybe I dreamed it.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by Oscar »

Despite the cool animations, don't like the redesign for lot of reasons already mentioned by so many other people:

1) Shape and overall "organic" feel of the building is completely out of line compared to all other buildings. IMHO the steampunk theme with rugged and rusty industrial and mechanical designs that served this game so well is lost on this design. I understand the intention to make the beacon look high tech, but the result is actually that it makes it look alien instead, which in this case is not a good thing.

2) "Eye of Sauron" and the red color are too prominent, too threatening, and too distracting. Exactly the opposite as to the the actual function this building need to represent: support building that is not meant to focus attention.

3) New design really misses the mark regarding giving viewer more context about the building's functionality, i.e. radiate energy to nearby buildings. In that respect the old design actually does a much better job with a rotating array that is clearly emitting something.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by <NO_NAME> »

It looks like rocket silo crossed with laboratory, with an addition of particle accelerator. I don't like it. It's too round. It doesn't fit to the rest of the esthetics.
Why it is partially underground? Kinda counter-productive when you're trying to build a tower. And it would bother me if I pick it up and see no hole in the ground.

Well, I've complained a lot but I probably won't even see it in the game because I don't like beacons.
I usually don't use them at all because it would force me to arrange the whole factory around them. Beacons would be better if they had bigger range and some limit on how many of them can interact with single building.
I am a translator. And what did you do for Factorio?
Check out my mod "Realistic Ores" and my other mods!

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by Chaoseed »

Albert wrote: It has to look modern. It reminds of a soviet space capsule.
... 🤔

Modern...Soviet space capsule...

...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by Eddyyy »

Koub wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:11 pm
If I could choose between all the designs that were posted, I'd choose this one :
spoiler
The electric effects look awesome, despite the fact I wouldn't have expected them on a beacon.

But (and there are two butts) :
1) I'm disturbed by the long vertical pole on the top. I'd have expected many satellite dish-like antennas oriented in all directions (or a single one rotating, kind of similar to the current design)
2) Please, no random variations. Please please please please please.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
The Random Variations would be very unaesthetically pleasing for those who like everything perfect, OCD style, including myself.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by plepper1 »

Brambor wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:18 pm
Also, I cannot but help to see it as some sort of turret. A fighting entity. It looks eerie.
hmm...
Either way, I can't wait until it fries the biters for me...

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by AndrewIRL »

Panderturtle wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:15 pm
Looks fancy, but in my opinion its too much detail. The Beacon is a building which is in end-game nearly everywhere so i think it has to hide a bit between the other buildings. It should set itself in the background so you can see the other buildings more clear.
^ Came here to say exactly this. Too bright and too big - squish it down into the bounding box.

Beacons need to fade into the background.

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by AndrewIRL »

R3vo wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:07 pm
Any chance the light in the middle of the beacon could adjust its color depending on what module is used inside it? Blue for speed, green for efficiency and puple/red for production?
Oh that would be SWEET!

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Re: Friday Facts #339 - Beacon HR + Redesign process

Post by dee- »

Sorry, but I think it looks really really bad. :evil:

Reasons:
- too busy: the Beacon is a "passive" late-game building. It doesn't produce anything, it does not telegrph any status, it does not have to be popping out to you
- too colorful: again, it just pops out too much for a building you place and forget, also too childish. The colored Beacons break up the visual flow
- does not align well: the circle-design does not visually lend itself to be placed in rows like the usual Beacon-setup is, quares align better and create a more closed look
- nonsensical: I know it's Science Fantasy but why the electic arcs? What are they for? Electric arcs are utterly bad for everything electric or even moderately complex
- does not fit the design of all the other buildings - it looks to off, too alien
- the different rotation angles really trigger OCD and make it look even more messy, you can't see with a glance if everything is aligned as all buildings have an offset that lets you guess if you hit the grid correctly
- and more

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