[posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by orzelek » Tue May 14, 2019 5:23 pm

I can tell you that I had this issue few times on a desktop with RX480.
And it happened if I would alt+tab and game was loading in the background. It doesn' tdo that always - pretty rare in general. I haven't seen it happen in any other cirumstances. It might happen after you alt+tab back or just when it's loading in background - hard to tell which one of those is more probable.

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by mexmer » Tue May 14, 2019 8:03 pm

orzelek wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:23 pm
I can tell you that I had this issue few times on a desktop with RX480.
And it happened if I would alt+tab and game was loading in the background. It doesn' tdo that always - pretty rare in general. I haven't seen it happen in any other cirumstances. It might happen after you alt+tab back or just when it's loading in background - hard to tell which one of those is more probable.
Just curious, did you happen to have dual monitor with one monitor attached to igpu and other to discrete card?
I was able to get this error in such configuration (i7-4790 + gtx 860, 1 hd monitor to mobo dvi, other monitor connected to nvidia hdmi). But i got that like once or twice, although i usually don’t play games in work :)

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by orzelek » Tue May 14, 2019 9:27 pm

mexmer wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:03 pm
orzelek wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:23 pm
I can tell you that I had this issue few times on a desktop with RX480.
And it happened if I would alt+tab and game was loading in the background. It doesn' tdo that always - pretty rare in general. I haven't seen it happen in any other cirumstances. It might happen after you alt+tab back or just when it's loading in background - hard to tell which one of those is more probable.
Just curious, did you happen to have dual monitor with one monitor attached to igpu and other to discrete card?
I was able to get this error in such configuration (i7-4790 + gtx 860, 1 hd monitor to mobo dvi, other monitor connected to nvidia hdmi). But i got that like once or twice, although i usually don’t play games in work :)
I have only one monitor and one GPU. Integrated GPU is disabled in BIOS.

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by mexmer » Tue May 14, 2019 10:29 pm

orzelek wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:27 pm
mexmer wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 8:03 pm
orzelek wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 5:23 pm
I can tell you that I had this issue few times on a desktop with RX480.
And it happened if I would alt+tab and game was loading in the background. It doesn' tdo that always - pretty rare in general. I haven't seen it happen in any other cirumstances. It might happen after you alt+tab back or just when it's loading in background - hard to tell which one of those is more probable.
Just curious, did you happen to have dual monitor with one monitor attached to igpu and other to discrete card?
I was able to get this error in such configuration (i7-4790 + gtx 860, 1 hd monitor to mobo dvi, other monitor connected to nvidia hdmi). But i got that like once or twice, although i usually don’t play games in work :)
I have only one monitor and one GPU. Integrated GPU is disabled in BIOS.
Guess your error was most likely caused by driver reset then. Which is not exactly rare occurence on amd drivers. Especially if you have oc card version. Next time you see this, check if there is windows notification with gpu driver reset (either in notification list or event viewer)

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by posila » Wed May 15, 2019 10:09 am

Interesting information, thank you.
I don't have any data on crashes during startup, as we don't upload those, because players don't have chance to opt-out from the automatic crash log upload if they can't start the game. So the 50 crashes a day I mentioned were all from after the game that at least loaded to the menu (but some of the crashes are after many hours of playing), and most of them are from desktops without switchable graphics (but some of them could have been caused by switching from or to integrated graphics).

The data I have seem to be from "random driver resets" similar to what orzelek experienced (even though it happened during loading for him).The question is ... does the driver reset because we use Direct3D wrong, or is the cause external?

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by mexmer » Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 pm

posila wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 10:09 am
Interesting information, thank you.
I don't have any data on crashes during startup, as we don't upload those, because players don't have chance to opt-out from the automatic crash log upload if they can't start the game. So the 50 crashes a day I mentioned were all from after the game that at least loaded to the menu (but some of the crashes are after many hours of playing), and most of them are from desktops without switchable graphics (but some of them could have been caused by switching from or to integrated graphics).

The data I have seem to be from "random driver resets" similar to what orzelek experienced (even though it happened during loading for him).The question is ... does the driver reset because we use Direct3D wrong, or is the cause external?
from my experience driver reset on AMD cards happens either due overheating or memory overflow. on windows 7 it was easy to spot, because desktop switched to SVGA mode for short moment, then got back to normal resolution, but there was still yellow warning triangle in tray informing about reset (bubble notification).

On windows 10 drivers reset quietly, sometimes leaving notification, but due wonky nature of notification in windows 10, you might read driver notification minutes or even hours after it happened and only way to find when it happened is looking for error in system event log.

btw. can you check if there are any dxgi errors from desktop NVIDIA graphics? (well on notebooks nvidia optimus is sometimes wonky, but on desktop i have yet to experience nvidia driver reset, unlike AMD which has ... well they always had bad drivers)

to add to this, disabling OC profile for GPU might prevent this issue (when we talking about OC versions of graphic cards, that is)

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by posila » Wed May 15, 2019 9:05 pm

mexmer wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 pm
btw. can you check if there are any dxgi errors from desktop NVIDIA graphics? (well on notebooks nvidia optimus is sometimes wonky, but on desktop i have yet to experience nvidia driver reset, unlike AMD which has ... well they always had bad drivers)

to add to this, disabling OC profile for GPU might prevent this issue (when we talking about OC versions of graphic cards, that is)
Yes, plenty crashes on nVidia... I would say the distribution across HW is proportional to how many players own given HW based on Steam Survey, so the error seems to occur at pretty much random.

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by mexmer » Wed May 15, 2019 9:19 pm

posila wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 9:05 pm
mexmer wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:45 pm
btw. can you check if there are any dxgi errors from desktop NVIDIA graphics? (well on notebooks nvidia optimus is sometimes wonky, but on desktop i have yet to experience nvidia driver reset, unlike AMD which has ... well they always had bad drivers)

to add to this, disabling OC profile for GPU might prevent this issue (when we talking about OC versions of graphic cards, that is)
Yes, plenty crashes on nVidia... I would say the distribution across HW is proportional to how many players own given HW based on Steam Survey, so the error seems to occur at pretty much random.
this is interesting, like i said, i have never experienced driver reset on desktop nvidia, only some on my notebook, where is switchable Iris 520 & GTX 960.
on the other hand i know, there are issues with nvidia drivers, and they update them a lot to provide better compatibility for different A+ titles.

as for when i mentioned RAM overflow as cause for driver reset. i indeed did mean RAM, not VRAM (eg. ram on GC). for some years already graphic cards can, and do utilitize computer RAM as additional texture storage. this is quite fine (except it's much slower than VRAM), problem with using RAM is, that this RAM must be continuous when allocating (not just contiguous, but really continuous, it's allocated by driver directly and accessed directly, not by some software API) how much RAM can be allocated depends on total system RAM and also on VRAM, it never exceeds VRAM size, but on systems with low RAM it will take only as much as like up to 20% of RAM (so if you have card with 4 GB VRAM on computer with 8GB, it will not go past some 1.5GB) allocation of additional RAM doesn't happen all at once up to maximum, but ondemand, so there might be no issue, if additional texture (that doesn't fit to VRAM) requires like 100MB, but there might be problem, if driver needs to allocate 0.5GB at once.

might be good to check, how many mods people that experience crash have used, and look up graphics objects (textures, icons, etc.)

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Crash on load, DXGI_ERROR_DEVICE_REMOVED

Post by posila » Thu May 16, 2019 5:24 pm

I've added memory performance stats from OS and some perf stats from NvAPI to the log in 0.17.40, so let's see if running out of RAM or issues with overclocking is the reason.

Also, in 0.17.39 we got so far only about half of the expected amount of crashes ... so maybe changes I did for that version finally helped to avoid the problem. I decresed size of vertex buffers we use for streaming in quads to draw (the largest one was 3 MB for sprites, I made it 1 MB instead) and I made it so we don't keep any of the vertex buffers mapped when Present() is called.

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