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Some mods, made by Bob. Basically streaks every Factroio-area.

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Re: Feedback

Post by bobingabout » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:21 pm

Warrie wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:24 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:05 pm
I don't know if it is something I can fix, because my inserters are just a copy of the base game inserters.

if the code in data has changed, then there's a chance some of my inserters (All of them if you're not using the overhaul, which it looks like you're not) may be effected, and I MIGHT be able to fix.

I'll have to take a look at some point.
Thanks for your fast reply.
That must be it then, your inserters use pre 0.15.14 base code, which was bugged. Im using all your mods except for the clock and character classes. 15+ the library. Game was full bobangel.

I just noticed you helped to identify the problem in the base game in that topic 3 years ago. Ironically only your mod still has the issue now. It took the devs 2 years to fix it, we can wait.
I had a look, and there's no significant difference between my (pre 0.15.14) code and the newer code. Some of the entries are in different orders, but everything that is in one, is also in the other on a 1:1 basis, so I don't see why mine wouldn't work, when the base game ones do.
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Re: Feedback

Post by Warrie » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:25 am

Twinsen wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 4:02 pm
The problem was a bit deeper. The vector given to the atan2 was rotated imprecisely.

Fixed it in Version: 0.15.14.
Modded inserters that change vectors at run-time might still have this problem, but the base game now works properly.
In that topic i mentioned earlier, this seems a good direction from the dev who fixed it in vanilla. I dont know how inserters work, but might it be that the vectors you calculated for your inserters were based on this imprecise rotation?

Still this mod is an impressive work. It creates a lot of different design possibilities without really adding content (your other mods are for that).

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Re: Feedback

Post by bobingabout » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:51 am

Twinsen wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 4:02 pm
Modded inserters that change vectors at run-time
To the game engine, there is no significant difference between an inserter added by the base mod, or a 3rd party mod. All the tags that are on "fast-inserter" are on "express-inserter", that was the only check I actually did. (The light blue one in logistics mod when overhaul is turned off, looks like your bottom left one)
as for the "change vectors at run-time" part, you're using the GUI to change the vectors, run-time. I have no idea why it should be an issue on the express inserter, but not on any base game one.
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Re: Feedback

Post by RocketManChronicles » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:40 pm

Hey Bobingabout,

I have noticed that the recipes for Flying Robot Frames Mk2, Mk3, and Mk4, and the matching Robot Tools and Robot Brains (incl Mk1) do not scale with the cost multiplier.

For example, my Flying Robot Frame Mk1 costs 16 Steel, 24 Batteries, 16 Electric Engines, and 16 Basic Electronic Boards, but the Flying Robot Frame Mk2 only costs 2 batteries, 1 Electric Engine, 1 Aluminum Plate, and 3 Electronic Circuit Boards.

Think you can look into this? I cannot confirm any other affected recipes as I have not unlocked everything yet.


Edit: It looks like the Modules costs do not scale for the Power Armors.

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Re: Feedback

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:13 pm

what cost multiplier?
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Re: Feedback

Post by der Papst » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:54 pm

Hey Bob, I've just started discovering your very interesting mod-pack.
It really boosts the realism of Factorio :)

I've 2 suggestions yet:

1)
It's already possible in your mod to split Water into hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis.
Did you ever had the idea to create an entity burning hydrogen and oxygen to steam?
This could serve as an high-capacity low-power energy storage - i would really prefer it over storing steam created by solar-powered electric boilers or thousands of accumulators...

2)
I don't know how the devs of vanilla got the idea to create an electric engine out of a fuel engine (which is comparable to creating a light bulb out of a candle) but please fix this cruelty to realism^^
A realistic recipe would be: 2 ball bearings, iron, copper and coal (for the commutator and brushes) and insulated wire.
An improved (more effecient) version could include some complex electronic parts for an inverter to resemble a BLDC drive.

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Re: Feedback

Post by bobingabout » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:15 pm

thank you.

1. I've not really thought about that before. in theory it should be possible, but then you'd need to consider the different temperature steams.
however... Hydrogen has a fuel value itself and is therefore burnable in the fluid generator, so it's not really needed.

2. I have thought about this before, Other mods have done something similar. It's just something I haven't really come back to yet.
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Re: Feedback

Post by RocketManChronicles » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:33 am

bobingabout wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:13 pm
what cost multiplier?
It is called the "Recipe Difficulty." I have it set to "expensive" which seems to increase the amount of required items for each recipe.

So, like in my example, without this multiplier (er, recipe difficulty), the Flying Robot Frame costs only 4 of each item.

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Re: Feedback

Post by bobingabout » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:43 am

RocketManChronicles wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:33 am
bobingabout wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:13 pm
what cost multiplier?
It is called the "Recipe Difficulty." I have it set to "expensive" which seems to increase the amount of required items for each recipe.

So, like in my example, without this multiplier (er, recipe difficulty), the Flying Robot Frame costs only 4 of each item.
Right, that. I have added a lot of "expensive" recipes around the place. AFAIK the ones you've mentioned (modules and robot frames) don't have an expensive mode variant. I looked at the data, in vanilla, there is no expensive recipe for the flying robot frame. Is it possible this was added by a mod?
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Re: Feedback

Post by RocketManChronicles » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:37 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:43 am
Right, that. I have added a lot of "expensive" recipes around the place. AFAIK the ones you've mentioned (modules and robot frames) don't have an expensive mode variant. I looked at the data, in vanilla, there is no expensive recipe for the flying robot frame. Is it possible this was added by a mod?
That is a good question. I will check when I get home tonight. I will start a new game with the same mods I have now and set the Recipe Difficulty to Normal and see. I will report back later.

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Re: Feedback

Post by RocketManChronicles » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:05 am

Well, it took me two days, lol, sorry. I started a game with all of the settings exactly the same with all of the mods except the one setting to keep recipes at "Normal." I also started another with just switching it to "Expensive" as well and the recipes are affected. The flying robot frame is set to cost 4 of each ingredient. So, just triggering the recipe from "Expensive" to "Normal" and back changes it.

So, something is allowing the cost to change the items that are carried over from the vanilla game.

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Re: Feedback

Post by Warrie » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:03 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:51 am
Twinsen wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 4:02 pm
Modded inserters that change vectors at run-time
To the game engine, there is no significant difference between an inserter added by the base mod, or a 3rd party mod. All the tags that are on "fast-inserter" are on "express-inserter", that was the only check I actually did. (The light blue one in logistics mod when overhaul is turned off, looks like your bottom left one)
as for the "change vectors at run-time" part, you're using the GUI to change the vectors, run-time. I have no idea why it should be an issue on the express inserter, but not on any base game one.
Thanks for pointing out the inserter overhaul. I missed it! its a nice improvement, although some orientations still contain the bug (although not all of the modified ones, mostly the higher tiers). Can we assume the inserter overhaul is default in the 0.17 release version?

Another note;

Will you upgrade the gfx of your solar panels, to the new vanilla? Distinctive icons for the 9 different solar panel types would also be handy :>
Personally i dont see the point of the different sizes, especially the bigger one since it provides no size/power improvement. It would be worth building if it gives a ratio improvement. The regular mk3 already gets build for satellites.
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Re: Feedback

Post by RocketManChronicles » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:31 pm

Welp @bobingabout, this latest FFF seems to really put a damper on your work. I saw your responses and I did feel for you. The amount of work you must go through with their current changes is certainly a mountain. And as an avid user of your mudpack, I can totally understand the time that would take. It feels kind of heartbreaking, actually, to know how much they are changing that affects so many of your mods. I loved the complexity that is there already, especially the warfare side. I guess I never fully grasped the mining mechanics, I just knew that I need higher tiers to mine the higher tier materials at reasonable rates.

I guess, what does this all entail for your mods? Maybe that is an unfair generic question. I have some ideas on what you are going to do, but I am curious about your thoughts.

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Re: Feedback

Post by bobingabout » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:21 pm

RocketManChronicles wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:31 pm
what does this all entail for your mods? Maybe that is an unfair generic question. I have some ideas on what you are going to do, but I am curious about your thoughts.
The short answer is just... I have to deal with it. Some changes can't be undone, like the mining axes, they'll be going away and replaced with technology unlocks.
Other areas, I'll have to make a decision, do I change fuel values and/or recipes for the solid fuel and rocket fuel that both have their recipe changed (rocket fuel recipe is re-written in my revamp mod)

Basically, undo, rework, or work around, I have to ask that question for every change. Mining axes will be a work around, damage types will likely be more of an undo, to re-add those that have been removed.
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Re: Feedback

Post by Light » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:18 pm

I wouldn't count the article as fact quite yet. Removing backend features is going to be a destructive move and the backlash is already strong enough from the mere suggestion of removal at all.

It does seem like the devs have lost focus (Again), and it wouldn't entirely surprise me if the next article is about how this was another terrible troll attempt to irritate us like they did before. It makes no sense why they'd shoot themselves in the foot otherwise.

Either way, I'm keeping a 0.16 folder of the game so I can enjoy the mods in their original state.

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Re: Feedback

Post by bobingabout » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am

Light wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:18 pm
I wouldn't count the article as fact quite yet. Removing backend features is going to be a destructive move and the backlash is already strong enough from the mere suggestion of removal at all.
I have source access, remember? I downloaded the latest version of 0.17, and everything they said in the FFF is already done.
I'm not saying it can't be undone, but from what I've seen on the source access discord... it won't be undone.

The only features that are completely removed from what I can tell is mining tools and hardness, you could in theory undo most of the rest of it in mods as it is only data changes.
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Re: Feedback

Post by RocketManChronicles » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:38 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am
Light wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:18 pm
I wouldn't count the article as fact quite yet. Removing backend features is going to be a destructive move and the backlash is already strong enough from the mere suggestion of removal at all.
I have source access, remember? I downloaded the latest version of 0.17, and everything they said in the FFF is already done.
I'm not saying it can't be undone, but from what I've seen on the source access discord... it won't be undone.

The only features that are completely removed from what I can tell is mining tools and hardness, you could in theory undo most of the rest of it in mods as it is only data changes.
That seems to go both ways. At least in vanilla, I don't mind the axes going away, however, with your mods, I enjoyed having various tools at different times and in different orders based on what path I researched and materials gathered. (In one game, I had the diamond axe long before I even had a cobalt one). Although, I am really curious about how the removal of hardness affects the ores in your mod pack, as I had never paid too much attention to its effects. And as for the Assembly machines, maybe this is an opportunity to look at them and make the tiers have more interesting differences, as I would hope that there would be more than just speed changes (not liking that for vanilla Factorio).

Maybe I should hold onto a 0.16 version of the game as well, good idea @Light.

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Re: Feedback

Post by Light » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:38 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:47 am
Light wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:18 pm
I wouldn't count the article as fact quite yet. Removing backend features is going to be a destructive move and the backlash is already strong enough from the mere suggestion of removal at all.
I have source access, remember? I downloaded the latest version of 0.17, and everything they said in the FFF is already done.
I'm not saying it can't be undone, but from what I've seen on the source access discord... it won't be undone.

The only features that are completely removed from what I can tell is mining tools and hardness, you could in theory undo most of the rest of it in mods as it is only data changes.
Nice to know feedback isn't considered before making major changes. After seeing the latest FFF which swept the issue aside, I've got little hope for the future of the game if they keep to that mindset.

If the changes could be undone I'd be content to try 0.17, but I've got 0.16 preserved for myself and six other friends who were equally baffled at the direction things went. LAN parties with Bob's + Angel's every weekend is a highlight of our evening, so we do appreciate the work you've done and we will continue to do so with 0.16 as our default.

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Re: Feedback

Post by MakeB » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:33 am

Greetings

I have this weird issue on my current save that when i try to research specific robots, roboports and robot logistic things, my game freezes, totally. It needs to be killed from task manager. I could research basics, i.e. flight and was there something else...hum. I used cheat to research logistic robots and then i had search from scripts to find technology name for Bob's roboports...fun :D

Anyway, save has pretty much all Bob's mods, angels mods (not logistics), SpaceX and ScienceCostTweaker (mexmer). I can post save pre-cheat ( :D ) if you can wish to look, but not sure what causes issues really.

Thanks for fun mods

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Re: Feedback

Post by bobingabout » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:25 am

Light wrote:
Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:38 pm
Nice to know feedback isn't considered before making major changes. After seeing the latest FFF which swept the issue aside, I've got little hope for the future of the game if they keep to that mindset.
I believe, and this is speculation, that this was mostly just Korverax looking at it funny, and then making changes himself, with minimal consultation with the dev team, let alone considering the community.

in either case, don't worry too much about bob's mods being updated. there will be a 0.17 version, even if I have to work around all these changes.
MakeB wrote:
Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:33 am
Greetings

I have this weird issue on my current save that when i try to research specific robots, roboports and robot logistic things, my game freezes, totally. It needs to be killed from task manager. I could research basics, i.e. flight and was there something else...hum. I used cheat to research logistic robots and then i had search from scripts to find technology name for Bob's roboports...fun :D

Anyway, save has pretty much all Bob's mods, angels mods (not logistics), SpaceX and ScienceCostTweaker (mexmer). I can post save pre-cheat ( :D ) if you can wish to look, but not sure what causes issues really.

Thanks for fun mods
I'm not certain I can really do anything about that. I would suspect it would be a script or something, triggered on research complete, but bob's mods doesn't do that outside of bob's inserters, and that specifically looks for it's inserter based technologies.
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