[0.17] Please post bugs and balance issues here.

[catpig]

Edit: Reactivating the mods with the "sync from savegame" feature made the problem go away so I can no longer reproduce it unfortunately... I'll leave the post, however, in case someone else runs into a similar issue or if you want me to try something :/

Hey, first of all thanks a lot again for your great mods. I'm having a problem with items not moving on belts and it was suggested it could potentially be a problem with the belts from your logistics mod. I deactivated all mods except your logistics and functions library and it still happens. The stuff displayed by the debug feature also seems off, but I don't know how to properly interpret that so I'll stop speculating.
Attached a savegame showing the problem: walk SE from starting point - first belt you hit has bobmonium ore stuck on it with more mods present, or if you keep walking another 2 or 3 seconds you get to the coal splitter from the screenshot.

Mining a piece of the affected belt or collecting some of the stuck items corrects the problem for the lane(s) that were affected by the mining/pickup.

My original bugreport in the main forum: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=66863

[bobingabout]

Is it correct that currently it is not useful to build higher mark boilers and steam engines? (Other than saving space and water)
mk2 sets seem to eat twice as much coal exactly.

Because the base game boiler now starts with an efficiency of 100%, I removed all the efficiencies from my own boilers too. so, pretty much the only difference it makes now is saving space and water.

though I did add Oil (powered) boilers that require a MK2, and heat exchangers require a MK3, so there's that.
You can actually just stick the output of an oil well to the input of an oil boiler, and it will work. It will produce steam and a crapload of pollution. or you could refine the oil and use that for less pollution. It takes any fluid with a fuel value, so that includes Hydrogen and Hydrazine too. unfortunately the game doesn't tell you the pollution multipliers.

That's because the boilers still have the 60-90% efficiency values, while vanilla boilers in 0.17 now have 100% efficiency but all mJ values of fuels got halfed

Someone mentioned this earlier (could have been you), so I went and double checked, I definitely removed all references to efficiency in 0.17's boilers. Can you post any screenshots in 0.17 of the game telling you that there's still less than 100% efficiency on my boilers?

[Biblicalflood]

I'm using all available updated Bob's/Angel's and I can't seem to find a way to craft Silicon Wafers. They have "Mono Silicon" as an ingredient and the What's It Used For mod can't find a recipe to make Mono Silicon. I don't know if this is an Angels bug or a Bobs Bug, so I'm posting in both.

[bobingabout]

I'm using all available updated Bob's/Angel's and I can't seem to find a way to craft Silicon Wafers. They have "Mono Silicon" as an ingredient and the What's It Used For mod can't find a recipe to make Mono Silicon. I don't know if this is an Angels bug or a Bobs Bug, so I'm posting in both.

It's not a bobs thing, I think Angel adds the mono silicon.

[Recon777]

I just found that I cannot string a circuit wire from a "Big electric pole Mk3" to a combinator as far as I used to be able to in 0.16
Seems the max wire range has been significantly cut.

[bobingabout]

I just found that I cannot string a circuit wire from a "Big electric pole Mk3" to a combinator as far as I used to be able to in 0.16
Seems the max wire range has been significantly cut.

there is no max circuit wire distance defined on poles in 0.17 (I didn't look back at 0.16) so I'm assuming the limit is defined by the combinator, not the pole.

[Recon777]

I just found that I cannot string a circuit wire from a "Big electric pole Mk3" to a combinator as far as I used to be able to in 0.16
Seems the max wire range has been significantly cut.

there is no max circuit wire distance defined on poles in 0.17 (I didn't look back at 0.16) so I'm assuming the limit is defined by the combinator, not the pole.

Just tested this in 0.16 and apparently the way it works there is if you try to hook a wire FROM the combinator TO the large pole, it fails because it comes to the end of the combinator's wire range rather quickly. But if you go from the large pole to the combinator, it works because it uses the power pole's much longer range.

In 0.17 this doesn't work. Even when laying down blueprints from 0.16, the wires simply don't connect.

What do you feel should be the proper behavior? Allow long range connections from large power poles? Or limit based on the shortest ranged entity?

[Scintille]

Hello, sorry if this is a wrong place to post, but i feel like this can be classified as a balance issue

Im playing with Angel and Bob's mods installed, and after updating from 0.16 to 0.17 i noticed that miners got a lot slower. Its easy to see that slowdown is due to mining hardness and mining power values being removed from the game.

Old formula for mining speed (items/second) was (M.power - M.hardness)*M.speed/M.time

New formula is the same minus (M.power - M.hardness) multiplier. Because of that drills got a LOT slower. For example my mk4 drill on Rubyte ore in 0.16 was mining 7.5 ore per second (not counting bonuses), and in 0.17 it mines 1.4

Are there any plans to increase mining speed of higher tier drills? Or should i just try to change mod files myself and increase values

[bobingabout]

Just tested this in 0.16 and apparently the way it works there is if you try to hook a wire FROM the combinator TO the large pole, it fails because it comes to the end of the combinator's wire range rather quickly. But if you go from the large pole to the combinator, it works because it uses the power pole's much longer range.

In 0.17 this doesn't work. Even when laying down blueprints from 0.16, the wires simply don't connect.

What do you feel should be the proper behavior? Allow long range connections from large power poles? Or limit based on the shortest ranged entity?

I would say that the behaviour in 0.16 could be considered a bug. IIRC the range SHOULD be limited by the reach of the entity with SHORTEST range, so 0.17 effectively fixed a bug.

[Recon777]

Apparently, ammunition has a "minimum range" property, which is set to zero for Bob's custom ammunition. Such as H.E. bullets.
I am told that this affects the minimum shooting distance for turrets. In instances where an ammo has splash damage, would it be prudent to set the minimum shooting range for that ammo type to something greater than the AoE radius for the splash damage? That way, if biters charge your turrets (which of course they will) the turrets won't kill themselves.

[bobingabout]

Hello, sorry if this is a wrong place to post, but i feel like this can be classified as a balance issue

Im playing with Angel and Bob's mods installed, and after updating from 0.16 to 0.17 i noticed that miners got a lot slower. Its easy to see that slowdown is due to mining hardness and mining power values being removed from the game.

Old formula for mining speed (items/second) was (M.power - M.hardness)*M.speed/M.time

New formula is the same minus (M.power - M.hardness) multiplier. Because of that drills got a LOT slower. For example my mk4 drill on Rubyte ore in 0.16 was mining 7.5 ore per second (not counting bonuses), and in 0.17 it mines 1.4

Are there any plans to increase mining speed of higher tier drills? Or should i just try to change mod files myself and increase values

1. Rubyte is an angels ore, so you'd have to ask him about this ore specifically.
2. I had planned to look back at things.

It looks like the energy usage went down significantly to compensate for the lack of a mining power. the ores have changed a fair bit too, tungsten for example went from time 2 harness 2.6 to just time 3. drill speeds were hardly buffed though, the fastest mining drill used to be speed 4 with a power of 8, now it's just speed 5.
lets look at tungsten
the formula was (8-2.6) * (4/2) = 5.4 * 2 = 10.8 ore per second.
the formula is now 5/3, that's it, 1.66 ore per second.

lets look at iron for comparison. it used to be time 2 at hardness 0.9. now it's just time 1.
The formula was (8-0.9) * (4/2) = 7.1 * 2 = 14.2 ore per second.
the formula now is 5/1, just 5.

It's hard to make it fair for all ore types, but, lets try... tripple the speeds
Tungsten would be 15/3 or 5, and iron would be 15.

So do you gear for high end and end up with speed 10 for tungsten, but speed 30 for iron, or gear for low end and end up with 5 for tungsten and 15 for iron? or meet in the middle and edit the mining times.

So I guess it depends what our goal SHOULD be? Perhaps I should give the high end ores lower speeds, but use a different mining category forcing you to upgrade mining drills, but the old hardness values were a good thing for this, because it would mean you needed at least a T3 to start, and got the ore at a 10th the speed as iron on the same drill, but by T5 it was still only half the speed. with the new system, it would always just be a 3rd the speed on any tier drill.

[bobingabout]

Apparently, ammunition has a "minimum range" property, which is set to zero for Bob's custom ammunition. Such as H.E. bullets.
I am told that this affects the minimum shooting distance for turrets. In instances where an ammo has splash damage, would it be prudent to set the minimum shooting range for that ammo type to something greater than the AoE radius for the splash damage? That way, if biters charge your turrets (which of course they will) the turrets won't kill themselves.

It's not as easy as you make it sound. it took me a while to figure it out when I did it to the plasma cannon on the vehicle equipment grid. I think you also have to clamp it.
Also, with a minimum range the turret just wouldn't attack the biters at all.

[Recon777]

So I guess it depends what our goal SHOULD be? Perhaps I should give the high end ores lower speeds, but use a different mining category forcing you to upgrade mining drills

That's a cool idea actually. Kind of like Terraria, Starbound, and Minecraft making certain materials simply inaccessible until you upgrade equipment.

[bobingabout]

So I guess it depends what our goal SHOULD be? Perhaps I should give the high end ores lower speeds, but use a different mining category forcing you to upgrade mining drills

That's a cool idea actually. Kind of like Terraria, Starbound, and Minecraft making certain materials simply inaccessible until you upgrade equipment.

it did previously exist in 0.16 to a degree, you couldn't put the lowest tier mining drills on the highest tier ores, because the mining power was less than the hardness. but T2 drills could do all ores.

[Scintille]

...

Thanks a lot for answer! Yeah, i didnt think how simply increasing drill speed will affect "lower tier" ores. So i guess for the time being i will just lower mining time values for angel ores slightly

Makes me realize that even though mining hardness/power was confusing for people to understand, it was a good tool to balance drills

[yuncheolkim]

When disable `Transport belt overhaul`, the game can't load.

[bobingabout]

When disable `Transport belt overhaul`, the game can't load.

Something else I need to look into then. Thanks.

It's not easy trying to test every possible configuration.

[Starfly]

Bug (you're probably aware of, but just to make sure): The Fast Inserter technology only needs the first science pack and unlocks the Express Inserter recipe (at least the research screen says so). Yet, the Express Inserters need to be crafted with materials which are far out of reach at this stage (Fast Insererts, Red Circuits, Cobalt, Alu).

Regarding Mining speed: I like the slower mining speed. Finally I have a reason to use the higher Miners. In my old games, I never used them because they were just too fast - but maybe it was more of a ore richness issue and that I never really built a huge megafactory.

As always: Thanks for your mods
♥ Starfly

[Light]

Toggling off the oil refineries also removes Mk2+ heat exchangers and steam turbines. It took me a moment to figure out why my reactors shut down, given the two aren't related. I actually had both that and oil burning generators disabled, thinking it just removed the oil power stuff.

I know you're busy, but it would be really nice to have a tooltip explaining what each toggle is supposed to have an effect on, so people know exactly what's being removed.

[bobingabout]

Toggling off the oil refineries also removes Mk2+ heat exchangers and steam turbines. It took me a moment to figure out why my reactors shut down, given the two aren't related. I actually had both that and oil burning generators disabled, thinking it just removed the oil power stuff.

I know you're busy, but it would be really nice to have a tooltip explaining what each toggle is supposed to have an effect on, so people know exactly what's being removed.

Why is there even an option for oil refineries in bob power?
It's because I somehow managed to mess up the locale. The item is actually called "bobmods-power-steam", and disables all new tiers of boilers, steam engines, oil boilers, heat exchangers and steam turbines. In theory I could have separated a few of these, but I changed up all the tiers, and the steam engine/turbine is kind of dependant on the (oil burning) boiler and heat exchanger setup, and with the overhaul you can't build steam turbines without T3 generators, and the HEs and OBs are branches of Boilers... it would take too long to separate it all in a way that makes sense, so I just put it all on one option, then named it wrong.