Combat system far too fast?

[ssilk]

I think this is not always possible. And why should it? Some maps are horribly difficult, while others are ridiculous easy.

For me it is clear, I cannot play a map, which is too difficult, but this is experience. And that isn't the best way: doing things because of experience. This will overdo new players.

Well. I have many thought about that, what can be done, I'm just not sure, about the way. Here my brainstorm:

Discovering and counting:
- we need to know how much resources, spawners, trees, water etc. we already have discovered and how many are in reach (=players radar-radius or self-defineable radius).
- discovering can be made much faster by some kind of robot you get at startup (like the coal-miner etc), to get faster results. They try to discover as many of the map as possible and avoid biters/worms, until they run out of fuel.
- based on that numbers an easy calculation can be done by the program: easy, medium, hard, unplayable.
- This has the sense to get a fast overview about everything discovered on the map and finding a good first center of your base.

Other stuff, than exposing the map:
- you get something like a wide-area radar, which shows you a direction (!) of the next big resource fields. Maybe a little complicated process, because we need to cross bear the direction(s).
- depending on the resources and other things in the starting area, the map generator places more resources (wreckages, more resources...) or more natives.
- i think that it is still a good idea, to decide in this moment, if I want to play against the natives or go with them. If I go with them, because of lack of resources, or they're too mighty, then I need to produce things, which they need, not me. And for that we have a market and swap things: one fish for 100 resources... Something like that.

[LoSboccacc]

Knowing where resources are is not really helpful if a big worm is insormuntable until you crank laser turrets out or power armies with shields.

I like resource scarcity as it pushes for expansion and to use the most interesting things, ie. trains.
But rejecting maps because the only iron is near a small spawn it is just as bad.

[LoSboccacc]

Knowing where resources are is not really helpful if a big worm is insormuntable until you crank laser turrets out or power armies with shields.

I like resource scarcity as it pushes for expansion and to use the most interesting things, ie. trains.
But rejecting maps because the only iron is near a small spawn it is just as bad.

We need a weapon for small bases early on, and should be strong enough to overcome one two big worms but should e very slow as not to be usable against medium bases. So that players have a chance to expand at low tech without having to make the starting safe area huge.

[ssilk]

Knowing where resources are is not really helpful if a big worm is insormuntable until you crank laser turrets out or power armies with shields.

Big worms are relatively seldom in the beginning and if, they can be normally surrounded. And if not so, we can change the algorithm, which counts the resources. Maybe it doesn't count resources "covered" by worms or spawners into their calculation.

I like resource scarcity as it pushes for expansion and to use the most interesting things, ie. trains.
But rejecting maps because the only iron is near a small spawn it is just as bad.

I'm talking only about that: The only available (yet in discovered reach - because anything else would be cheating) resource is too small to come to a minimum level, where you can begin to fight. I'm not shure, but I really think this can be calculated and the above post is exactly about that it is nearly possible to decide, if a map can be used.

The part 2 of the suggestions is about that you try to find resources, which are far away (you need to search with a much bigger chance) or that the game provides more resources in that case.

And @LoSboccacc: A weapon means, that it needs resources. For example a mortar: Needs shells. Or artillery. In any way, otherwise the game would shift it's balance.
But the problem is, that the resources are so low and/or out of reach, because of the worms, that it's not possible to built even that.

No, I mean, there must be a completely different way - as mentioned - a peaceful way, which should not be much slower, but more complicated.
For example: Use long-hand inserter for fishing. Put fish into furnace -> smoked fish. Put into market. Biters like smoked fish and buy a smoked fish for 100 iron ore.
And so on. There is no limit in fantasy and I think this could be very funny to build some receipts around this - it's "just" much work.

[TGS]

tbh I love the idea that you are forced to move outward. But I often find myself focusing more heavily on advancing my factory than I do my military. Because honestly I just don't find the current combat fun in the least. If I had something I could use to actually tackle biter bases I would probably find the combat/military tech paths more appealing. But as of right now the Power Armor is pretty high tech. Mk2 is pretty much 'endgame' at this point and while I have noticed things have gotten easier since I think the rocket range was increased. (You can sit outside all but the large worms firing range and hit them with rockets) when you are up against a particularly large nest with a massive biter spawn... not far from your base and you have to expand because of limited resources it becomes extremely daunting. At that point you can end up in a situation where you go "Oops... I went the wrong direction, this game is a bust" and have to restart. Or try to chip away at the bases little by little, which sometimes is very hard because of how they are structured and with the biters constantly spawning. If you don't have at least power armor you stand no hope. In the time it will take you to kill the biters chasing you with the hit and run tactics of the car... more will have spawned. You don't get a chance to hit the defenses except for very and I mean VERY cheap drive by tactics with the car. Or... turret creep. Which honestly just shouldn't be a thing at all. Turrets are for defense, not offense. They should never ever be for offense. That's what mobility is for. Stationary = Defense. Mobile = Offense.

That's why I want a tank. It doesn't have to be low tech. It can be medium tech. After the car. But it shouldn't require any sci pack 3 (blue) cause as far as I'm concerned that's high tech, not to mention extremely annoying and time consume to produce without a really good factory. Which you can't always have due to biters knocking at your door.

[Kuxynator]

10 playing years later .. it's still too fast and i'm not getting any younger either
you got a warning: enemy is attacking, 1 second later the half base is destroyed,
no time to react means no fun
Yes, I know how to protect my base,
but I still can't watch a fight because by the time I scroll there (after the warning), the fight is already over.
and even if you just happen to be there, everything is over after a few seconds, there ios no fun to observe.

[Premu]

You don't have to scroll manually. Just click directly on the warning sign and it should jump right in the action where hopefully your turrets are murdering helpless natives.

But yeah, once you have an effective defensive system, even behemots are dispatched easily. You could always use a less efficient defense if you wish, though.

[mmmPI]

When i solo play i'm a beast, i eat fish with one hand and throw grenade with the other like a madman surounded by swarms of biters, i can jump off the car, grab the car, shoot at the ennemy, replace the car, repair the car, and continue like it's nothing, i can even race the rocketlauncher's rocket.

As soon as i go multiplayer, i become the prey, any slight lag and the car is stuck in a cliff mid HP and i'm out of ammo. I cannot switch from fish to grenade, it happens way to often that i grenade myself, or the car. And using the rocket thrower on a laggy server feels like running with a stick poiting to the ground in front of you, or a rake that can hit a rock at any time.

I have resorts to turret creeps or Spidertrons. ( most of the time i play peaceful though ).

10 playing years later .. it's still too fast and i'm not getting any younger either
you got a warning: enemy is attacking, 1 second later the half base is destroyed,
no time to react means no fun
Yes, I know how to protect my base,
but I still can't watch a fight because by the time I scroll there (after the warning), the fight is already over.
and even if you just happen to be there, everything is over after a few seconds, there ios no fun to observe.

Sounds like spending more time doing observations on map view could help in both ways, you'd keep the pollution cloud in check to avoid unexpected vector of attack so you won't suffer as much damage early game, and you could witness the defensive fights from the radar view, it's a more relaxed playstyle that does not force the user to mash the keyboard super fast

As mentionned if you can't see a fight it's a good sign for your defense, it means it's dealing with the threat fast enough so that it won't sustain much damage, if the fight takes so long that you can scroll to watch, your defense may need more DPS. As such i found it's easier to observe fights when you see a group forming on the radar from those random chunk revealed, then anticipating the way to your defense.