Reactor network setup

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MeduSalem
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Re: Reactor network setup

Post by MeduSalem »

Tertius wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 8:49 am I don't understand why you ignore efficiency on one place (neighbor bonus, by using 2x2 instead of 2xN you forfeit 33% energy), and at some other place you invest effort and optimize for fast reaction, which might save a few tiny % on very low power condition for the last 5-10 seconds of the burning phase when the temperature might raise up to 1000°C.

Instead, it would be easier to just build some random 2xN without optimization, and still get more energy out of the consumed fuel cells just because of the increased neighbor bonus.

It's like buying the most advanced efficient heating system for your home for a high price, and your home is just a wooden shack with simple uninsulated glass windows, so the heat just vanishes. Instead you can build a solid insulated house and use any small heating system and your energy efficiency is still way better.

If you design something and want to optimize, look for the thing with the most impact. Usually, the impact of this single thing is bigger than the impact of all other things added together. For nuclear reactors, the thing with the most impact is the neighbor bonus, so if you want to optimize a nuclear power plant, optimize for neighbor bonus.
Tertius, I made tons of more efficient big nuclear power plants with 2*N designs. I never said that a 2x2 design is better for efficiency than a much longer 2xN design. I absolutely know 2x2 is not as efficient and that I give up on the neighboring bonus. ^^

However, when I switched to the 2x2 design there was absolutely no intention for maximum efficiency attached. I changed to 2x2 simply because I wanted to. I wanted to make a nice little design that was different and more aesthetically pleasing than the boring long blocks with endless rows of heat exchangers and steam turbines I used to make purely for efficiency reasons pre-2.0.

I also toyed with the settings for the 2x2 setup only because I wanted to know what its limits are, because it was the first nuclear plant I built with 2.0 using the temperature readout instead of using the empty fuel cell output as a insert-trigger.

I can try explain other reasons why I stopped caring too much about it. Mostly it is because for Space Age Nuclear Power is outdated anyway. Sure, it is there... but it is there in the same odd space with the rest of the outdated Nauvis content where when heading towards the mid-endgame it more and more loses its purpose, just like Nauvis itself loses purpose except for biter eggs and biolabs.

I would keep using more energy efficient designs if it would matter across the board, like if there was still a lot of use in endgame on Nauvis with huge production chains attached, or if we also had to constantly use nuclear on other planets. But instead one moves production away from Nauvis and there is a constant lack of water everywhere but Nauvis & maybe Gleba (even though making rocket fuel is so efficient, I never felt the need to switch to nuclear power) making you resort on other ways to produce power. ^^

So the design is purely to have fun in the midgame on Nauvis during the phase when getting ready for space. Not because I feel like it is the best thing ever. Because if someone would ask me what the most efficient nuclear setup is I would totally refer to making one singular huge 2*N block and make sure it is modular so one can stamp down more of it on either end.
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Khagan
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Re: Reactor network setup

Post by Khagan »

Tertius wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 8:49 am it would be easier to just build some random 2xN without optimization, and still get more energy out of the consumed fuel cells just because of the increased neighbor bonus.
It's not even just about optimising use of fuel cells. The reactors themselves are expensive capital items, and more neighbour bonuses means you need fewer of them.
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Re: Reactor network setup

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Khagan wrote: Thu Jul 31, 2025 11:56 pm It's not even just about optimising use of fuel cells. The reactors themselves are expensive capital items, and more neighbour bonuses means you need fewer of them.
That is true however. They are rather expensive investment early on.

However because I wanted to get to the space stuff asap, I built the 2x2 reactor setup to get things going and it was more than enough at that point. Mind, I also had all the regular steam engines also still hooked up and never tore them down.

Anyway I then went to space. After unlocking Vulcanus, Fulgora and Gleba... I concentratied more on the other planets.

Eventually I did copy & paste another 2x2 reactor block on Nauvis next to the first one. Sure it is not as efficient as if it were a combined 2x4 setup or even bigger would be. To place one of my 2*N modular blueprints I would have had to venture further east to the next ocean and shred through biter territory because the little lake in the starting would not have done it. I did not leave the space around it for bigger plants. I thought eventually I would just landfill that little lake anyway. I also purposely used a seed where I had lots of space around the starting area because I still was used to think I would need all that area eventually for all the production lines. So the farther away the oceans are, the better. Didn't know then that it would turn out that Nauvis is meant to return into a nature reserve.

However the 2x2 setup I could just place between the roboport grid I had set up and hook it to the starting lake and was done with it. So I was "good enough" and moved on. In that regard the 2x2 did its job, less work, and fits everywhere and it looks nice and tidy. So even in future SA runs I will likely do it that way. ^^

Anyway in the grand scheme of things with Space Age I still feel like it doesn't matter as much as it used to without because there are other investments to be made which way outshine nuclear stuff. ^^

If I eventually go back to play more basegame without SA to see what 2.0 is like there then it would be a different story because all of the energy production & consumption is just on Nauvis, so makes sense to be as efficient about it as possible.
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Re: Reactor network setup

Post by Tertius »

MeduSalem wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2025 11:57 am To place one of my 2*N modular blueprints I would have had to venture further east to the next ocean and shred through biter territory because the little lake in the starting would not have done it. I did not leave the space around it for bigger plants. I thought eventually I would just landfill that little lake anyway.
In 2.0, you don't have to place bigger nuclear power plants on lakes with landfill. Just tap any nearby water and that's it.
Screenshot 2025-08-01 142725.jpg
Screenshot 2025-08-01 142725.jpg (2.72 MiB) Viewed 91 times
Tileable blueprint 2x6 reactors. Put next tile on top matching the reactor line, use force building to cut off the stuff below the reactor line with the testing and control items, which are not needed for additional tiles. Add enough offshore pumps (2 per tile), but a single pipe is sufficient. Wasteless design with 1 combinator, where "wasteless" begins at about 20% load up to 100%. Below 20% some fuel is probably wasted.

Last edited by Tertius on Fri Aug 01, 2025 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MeduSalem
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Re: Reactor network setup

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Tertius wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2025 12:30 pm In 2.0, you don't have to place bigger nuclear power plants on lakes with landfill. Just tap any nearby water and that's it.
You misunderstood me there a little. I meant I had planned to landfill the tiny starting area lake eventually because I had planned for endgame to place another production city block on it, not to place power on it. ^^

Originally I had planned to move all Nauvis power production next to the ocean (without landfilling, even pre 2.0 I never land-filled for Nuclear plants except straightening shorelines a little to place the offshore pumps in a more tidy fashion) further in the east, but I never got around to do that because I deemed it unnecessary after I found out it is so much better to move large scale production of items (and with it energy consumption of the machines) to the other planets.

But still, because I originally had planned to move all Nauvis power production further away from the starting area, I pretty much boxed myself in the starting area around the tiny starting lake. So there was no space to place a big modular blueprint. I could have made that room by moving a lot of other infrastructure/production lines, but that would have been even more work. Sure, I could have placed a bigger plant on the outskirts of my starting factory and then spaghetti the water pipes through somehow to the starting area lake because the fluid system would still be able to handle it with 2.0, but brrrrrr... while I looked at that option I immediately rejected it. ^^
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Re: Reactor network setup

Post by mmmPI »

MeduSalem wrote: Wed Jul 30, 2025 10:19 pm
mmmPI wrote: Thu Jul 03, 2025 9:18 pm
brunzenstein wrote: Mon Jun 30, 2025 9:54 am What do you think about my idea of scrapping the system T value entirely and instead implementing a mechanism where, whenever a useful fuel cell is removed from the reactor, only one new fuel cell is inserted?
It would be a regression compared to the blueprint you posted which was fine already.
I wouldn't say it is a "regression". Because it would work. In the end it would be similar to how we did it before 2.0
Regression :
The process or an instance of regressing, as to a less perfect or less developed state.
noun Psychology Reversion to an earlier or less mature pattern of feeling or behavior.
https://www.wordnik.com/words/regression

You could use the word you want, i stick with regression , that's what you described :)
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