Add elevated big power pole in fulgura together with elevated rails, or lower foundation tech requirements

[AileTheAlien]

I've yet to see an island not connected by shallow oil ocean - (almost) all constraints would be gone.

Yeah, I think that's how the ocean's meant to be - walkable, drivable, and train-able with elevated rails. But if shallow-oil-fill used up concrete or refined concrete, you wouldn't be able to spam it, just use it to fill in a couple awkward shapes here and there. That's sort of like how normal landfill works - use it sparingly, unless you're cheating.

the intent is definitely that you make multiple micro-bases and train it away, rather than one interconnected base

I mean, it's right there in the second Fulgora blog about the recyclers:

Islands are usually separated by a gap that's larger than (basic quality) big electric poles, so in most cases each island will have its own electrical network.
Island size matters.

The result is that you'll typically be motivated to create a train network that spans over many islands using elevated rails.

So I'm rescinding my support of an elevated power pole. Superconducting rails that you can export off-planet would be cool, but you can just train nuclear-steam around to other bases on Nauvis, Vulcanus has extra-easy solar + accumulators, Fulgora's already easy with lightning + accumulators, Gleba's spoilage is too scary for me to deal with, and Aquilo has fusion reactors. So...no change needed - easiest feature-request ever!

[Stargateur]

fulgora is just about using accumulator, you better craft quality accumulator to save space, and you will have plenty of power after.

I craft legendary big electric pole and could NOT link two islands... so disappointed. The limited space is already hard, the game say "go for train, you have trouble to even have enough space to put down a correct train network and you also want people to suffer for electricity ??? I think if we can put giant rail support we should be able to put a electric pole ! and electric pole should have electric resistance no ?

[BlueTemplar]

I guess it's tricky from the random map generation standpoint to get it just right.
This is why I suggested to check it beforehand, when you pick islands to use, using the Shift + Alt + Scrollwheel ghost like I did for my screenshot.
Though :

[...]
However with all that said and done, i think the player could be more rewarded when trying to go for large power pole of higher quality with the idea of solving the challenge this way when 2 island are "close enough". I think it require observation, and investement into something based on it, and that should be rewarded and the quality power pole are underwhelming.
[...]

If there was a bigger difference between big pole wire reach between quality levels, it would also be easier on the random map generation to get it right ?

I've yet to see an island not connected by shallow oil ocean - (almost) all constraints would be gone.

Yeah, I think that's how the ocean's meant to be - walkable, drivable, and train-able with elevated rails. But if shallow-oil-fill used up concrete or refined concrete, you wouldn't be able to spam it, just use it to fill in a couple awkward shapes here and there. That's sort of like how normal landfill works - use it sparingly, unless you're cheating.
[...]

I guess it would depend on just how expensive it would be, but this is no pYanodons, vanilla tends to leave the «ridiculously expensive» to impressive things like nuclear reactors.

[Sworn]

Here you go, the 3rd small island I looked at can be connected by two mid-game power poles to a large island:

Yah luck you. Max quality one can get in Fulgora when you get there is rare, and as a "unluck" me, none of the small island connect to a bigger island with a rare big power pole, which I did got the trouble to build some rare thinking it would help.

Why even bring such comment. Add to the discussion with something constructive.

[BlueTemplar]

What do you mean 'none', the map is ~infinite, how many have you tried ?
(Are you using default map settings ?)

And how is that not a constructive solution, it solves your issue !?!

[siniox]

not being able to connect islands properly is part of the challenge

i agree to buff epic power poles instead of early powerpole foundations (rares are easy to get, epic are more expensive but still not long enough given the investment); legendary poles dont matter they are useless because you unlock them on aquilo with foundations

maybe a slight buff to roboport range with quality too?

[BlueTemplar]

Not 100% useless I guess, because Legendary quality seems to be much more important to get anyway, compared to Foundation, and both seem to be quite expensive ?

[PSYCHOELECTRIC]

the intent is definitely that you make multiple micro-bases and train it away, rather than one interconnected base

I mean, it's right there in the second Fulgora blog about the recyclers:

foundation isnt necessarily hard to get to, it something that i think is neat, and could have been an expensive option that couldnt realistically be protected of a long time, mostly meant for extremely close islands just barely off a large power poles range. i dont think making them kind of expensive would be all that bad, but i dont think theyd be all that useful nor gamebreaking, if people wanna keep replacing their power poles over and over again as it gets struck theyre plenty fine to be my guest :p

though, honestly, its fine how it is now. you kind of need two biggish islands to make trains work anyway, so might as well make two separate power sources. its definitely a non issue and only effects people who expect every planet to fall into the same rhythm as nauvis. a lot of players tend to have a hard time interfacing with the unique "minigames" of each planet, and thats no different here.

[Tinyboss]

• We know for sure the intended way to play is to have separate power networks until very late game. The devs specifically said so in one of the FFFs. So I doubt anything will be done to make it usually be possible to connect them.
• I don't know if I'm lucky or others are unlucky, but I've had no problem at all getting a train stop and enough accumulators on three super-rich (tens of millions) scrap patches.

11-10-2024, 20-09-30.png (272.37 KiB) Viewed 413 times

My ore patches are covered with Vulcanus drills, full quality instead of efficiency. Every accumulator is common quality.

11-10-2024, 20-09-45.png (5.15 MiB) Viewed 413 times

I see some islands on my that ARE (probably) too small, so I understand they exist, but if you go looking surely you'll find some that work, considering I have three that close. You may have to build a long rail but that's easy.

[Sworn]

Yes now you guys finally went over it. Exactly the point, having to finish the game first make it useless for lods of people.
One don't need to finish the game to be able to make elevated rails, you get it on Fulgora, just do some Fulgora research and you unlock it, at the same time we should just get a way to add power connection as well, that simple.

jezz stop comment about legendary item, it has the same issue as foundation have, you are already in Aquilo, once you get there you almost finished the game.
Not everyone plays the game to go back in Nauvis and make everything legendary tier, then do the same in fulgora and vulcanus.

That is exactly the point, have it to be "Late game". Not everyone wants to get to the Shattered planet with a legendary ship that shoots legendary rail gun ammo and legendary nukes.

You are on Fulgora, you researched a way to make elevated rails, you already conquer it, probably thinking on Gleba now.
There is a MASSIVE difference in game play time between getting on Fulgura / Vulcanus and getting on Aquilo.

[mmmPI]

Because islands are too far apart to be connected with power, and too small to be self sustain with accumulators.

Didn't noticed this the first time.

[BlueTemplar]

One don't need to finish the game to be able to make elevated rails, you get it on Fulgora, just do some Fulgora research and you unlock it

You don't, it's a cheap purple tech, you can get it on Nauvis, even pre-rocket if you want to.

jezz stop comment about legendary item, it has the same issue as foundation have, you are already in Aquilo, once you get there you almost finished the game.
Not everyone plays the game to go back in Nauvis and make everything legendary tier, then do the same in fulgora and vulcanus.

Have you missed (yet again) all the disclaimers we put around that ?

[BlueTemplar]

Also, it's not like your issue with power poles is completely invalid, but until you give a specific example (screenshot, or even better, as save) where it limits a real factory, it's going to sound more like this :
viewtopic.php?f=66&t=61673
(And even still not, since for that one they were completely stuck, and you aren't.)

[Sworn]

One don't need to finish the game to be able to make elevated rails, you get it on Fulgora, just do some Fulgora research and you unlock it

You don't, it's a cheap purple tech, you can get it on Nauvis, even pre-rocket if you want to.

What the heck are you reference it to? That is what I said, seems like you are talking about a completely different thing.

jezz stop comment about legendary item, it has the same issue as foundation have, you are already in Aquilo, once you get there you almost finished the game.
Not everyone plays the game to go back in Nauvis and make everything legendary tier, then do the same in fulgora and vulcanus.

Have you missed (yet again) all the disclaimers we put around that?

I'll just say the same (yet again), have you missed the point about having foundation and legendary been out of the question. THAT is exactly the point.

Some might like to after finishing the game, go back and rebuild the entire thing from scratch, others don't.

That is exactly why we have other threads like "Cliff Explosives" bringing the exact same topic simple because such simple tech got pushed further down another planet.

And furthermore, the suggestion I am adding, doesn't even make fulguras initial challenge different at all, it just removes that insane big difference in play time where you get foundation, without really allowing one to just landfill the world, only thing it will add is the ability to connect power, because some islands just don't have enough space. What is so hard to understand about it? I know my English writing skills isn't the best, but is that bad that make you not get what I'm saying at all?

this island doesn't run at daytime, it is just too small

11-13-2024, 19-15-05.png (2.27 MiB) Viewed 262 times

Is it a game breaking issue? Of course not, like everything in any situation, just add more, which is what I have, and everyone else. But that is the thing, then you get to Aquilo, great, you already have so many other small islands that it is irrelevant already. So why bother going back for it, it is not a fun game mechanic, might be for you, not for all. That is exactly the point, making a problem that can only be solved so late that is not a problem anymore, just a lost opportunity really.

Jezz I'm done, have my mod already doing it, suggestion is there, no point on going over the same subject 200 times. Foundation is just too late tech, Legendary has the same problem, some will like it, others don't. You like it, good for you, I don't, bad for me.
I made a suggestion that won't diminish your game play style in any way shape or form, while the contrary is not true

[BlueTemplar]

Ah, ok, it is a real example then, my bad.
(Maybe slightly smaller island than the usual small island, with more spread-out ore than usual ? Hard to say...)

Well, have you considered some of the other solutions, I believe some of them already mentioned in this thread :
- higher quality accumulators / lightning rods
- efficiency modules in drills
- lightning collectors instead of lightning rods (and higher quality lightning collectors)
- maybe even beacons with efficiency modules ? (including higher quality efficiency modules)

One don't need to finish the game to be able to make elevated rails, you get it on Fulgora, just do some Fulgora research and you unlock it

You don't, it's a cheap purple tech, you can get it on Nauvis, even pre-rocket if you want to.

What the heck are you reference it to? That is what I said, seems like you are talking about a completely different thing.
[...]

Elevated rails ??

elevated_rails.jpg (290.69 KiB) Viewed 243 times

[Tinyboss]

this island doesn't run at daytime, it is just too small

Nobody is saying that every small island is enough to cover the whole patch with big drills and run them continuously without messing with quality. The fact that you showed ONE island like that isn't very compelling. My world has islands like that, but others that ARE big enough (I posted it further up in this thread).

You have several very good options here:

• Replace some of the drills with more capacitors. I am assuming yours are getting filled up every night currently? You may need the better lightning rods if you add more.
• Find a super-rich patch on a bigger island. They don't seem to be rare, and you can reach most places using only elevated rails.
• Make some quality capacitors. The ingredients are dirt cheap on Fulgora so you will easily do it with a few quality modules. Even uncommon ones store DOUBLE what the normal ones do, and it goes up from there.

All of these options are pretty easy.

[mmmPI]

this island doesn't run at daytime, it is just too small

When i see that i wonder why the player put that many mining drill, it look disproportionnate compared to the accumulators.

The player has to manage the surface available for power production vs for item production and visibly you didn't understand or didn't suceed.

Looking at the minimap, it's the smallest island of the 3 with ressources that you settled there. You could just halve the number of mine and use 2 islands . Or efficiency modules ? Or not settle the smallest island ?

[Sworn]

Again, Why the heck you keep bring the elevated rail...

Elevated rails ??
elevated_rails.jpg

Yah, and why are you reference elevated rail....

Ok you definitely don't get it so to be perfectly clear, the suggestion is about getting to Fulgora and researching elevated power poles there. In case you still think I am talking about elevated rails.... I did mention since we know how to build a study enough structure to pass freaking trains, making power lines should be easy, and I also said it COULD be unlocked with elevated rails.

one still has to get there, deal with the small island or big oil gaps, make the science, make some research, and at that point, one should be able to then deal with the gaps, power, oil fill, etc.

in case it was not clear yet again...

[mmmPI]

I think it is weird to say "one still has to do with the small island", given the suggestion seem written specifically to alleviate the difficulty of having to deal with such island. Giving early foundation is like the oppoosite of dealing with the small island, as you can just have 1 big one , as said it ruins the concept of Fulgora, and to me seem to come from misunderstanding of the tools availble to manage the small islands as they are.

There are countless mod for this, don't think a "cheat" one should be included in the game as the default balance

[Sworn]

IF you only read the alternative of the suggestion, that would be yes. Which I address myself way before, so that last post adds nothing.

again, "as said it ruins the concept of Fulgora", it is still too high level for it and could easily be lowered to be a combination of Vulcanus and Fulgora.
That is your perspective, I wouldn't be here if that was not "ruining" the experience, already.