Make "Rush to Space" achievement more consistent with other achievements

[thuejk]

There are a number of achievements of the form "don't do X until Y":

* Logistics embargo: Don't *place* a blue chest - but you are allowed to research and craft them
* Raining bullets: Don't *place* a laser turret - but you are allowed to research and craft them
* Steam all the way: Don't *place* a solar panel - but you are allowed to research and craft them

The odd one out here is "Rush to Space":

* Rush to Space: don't *research* utility or production science

This inconsistency gotcha is confusing, and not just to me I think. So my change suggestion is:

Change "Rush to Space" to not allow you to use (i.e. complete a new tech) with utility or production science packs.

[wobbycarly]

I got caught out with this the first time I tried Rush to Space. I had misunderstood that simply researching would break the achievement. I agree that making this a little more ... flexible ... would be easier for some players to understand.

[Panzerknacker]

I think it is fine as it is. Instead they should allow you to use boilers in space with certain types of fuel as per my suggestion so that you can indeed skip researching solar panels completely without being deadlocked after launching the first rocket.

And even if they don't do that, I really want to emphasize here that 'streamlining' the game like this 'just because' only makes it bland and boring in the end. Exceptions make it more interesting even tho it can be a little annoying sometimes. I personally think they went way too far already with 2.0 regarding this.

[thuejk]

Exceptions make it more interesting

I agree that exceptions *can* be interesting. The spoilage mechanic on Gleba is one such interesting exception to normal gameplay.

But I don't see how this achievement being funky for no obvious reason makes the game more "interesting". Especially since it can invalidate hours of gameplay for people trying to get the achievements, in a non-obvious way.

[Hurkyl]

To play devil's advocate....

The proposed change would allow players to stockpile purple and yellow science while working on the achievement. Does that break the spirit of the achivement?

Also, with the change it could be unclear that you can't get the achievement by researching something that has a {other planet + yellow/purple} requirement.

I really want to emphasize here that 'streamlining' the game like this 'just because' only makes it bland and boring in the end.

What do you think is being streamlined by the suggestion?

[thuejk]

Also, with the change it could be unclear that you can't get the achievement by researching something that has a {other planet + yellow/purple} requirement.

Which is a good point - but just allow {other planet + yellow/purple}, for the purpose of this achievement, so people are not negatively surprised.

[crimsonarmy]

I think it is fine as it is. Instead they should allow you to use boilers in space with certain types of fuel as per my suggestion so that you can indeed skip researching solar panels completely without being deadlocked after launching the first rocket.

I'm not sure how this is an alternative solution to that stated problem.

[Panzerknacker]

Because then they can change the no solar achievement to also not allowing to research the tech, bringing it in line like the OP wants.

[Hurkyl]

Note that a side effect of changing the achievement so that you can't research the solar tech (and changing the prerequisites for the rocket silo accordingly) would make equipment grids unusable until you get a portable fission reactor.

That's probably far too much of a change. So you'd have to change portable solar panels and their research so they don't depend on solar energy, which probably adds more more inconsistency to factorio than the proposal seeks to remove.

[Panzerknacker]

I don't see the problem with that. If the achievement means to launch a rocket to space without using solar energy then I would assume that includes portable solar panels. Also, while this achievement kinda had a meaning in Vanilla, in Space Age there is nothing special about launching a rocket without solar, I do that every playthrough.

Solar tech is NOT a prerequisite for the Rocket silo or Space platforms (which I think is strange, since you cannot progress without it, you NEED solar panels to power the platform, hence my suggestion to allow boilers on platforms)

Regarding equipment grids, you can simply decide to not go for the achievement or to research solar directly after launching your first rocket. Like I said, it's easy enough to rush to space.

But now I don't wanna go more offtopic since OP's suggestion was about another achievement and I said what I wanted to say.

[Hurkyl]

Solar tech is NOT a prerequisite for the Rocket silo or Space platforms (which I think is strange, since you cannot progress without it, you NEED solar panels to power the platform, hence my suggestion to allow boilers on platforms)

Ah, I was looking at the vanilla requirements rather than the space age ones.

[Thremtopod]

The proposed change would allow players to stockpile purple and yellow science while working on the achievement. Does that break the spirit of the achivement?

A middle-ground could be "don't craft X", instead of "don't research with X".