ptx0's LTN Tracker Mod Pack

[ptx0]

The new LTN API breaks LTN Tracker, but the old version works "just fine" for me, so here they are, unmodified.

I can't put them on the mod portal due to limitations there with the license, the file checksums must be the same.

Download and place into the mods/ directory on your local installation.

LTN 1.12.1:

LogisticTrainNetwork_1.12.1.zip

old version of LTN

(190.95 KiB) Downloaded 332 times

LTN Tracker:

ptx0_LTN_Tracker_0.10.9.zip

LTN Tracker with 18.8 compatibility

(578.83 KiB) Downloaded 299 times

[stergil]

Thanks for this!

I don't know how people are supposed to manage large bases without a tracker tool like this. It's invaluable to catch and work through problems where cargo doesn't get fully unloaded and then has a domino effect of problems.

[khalismur]

You should stop distributing these mods, as you are violating the licenses. Let's show some respect for the authors who created them in their free times. If LTN tracker isn't available anymore, too bad. Wait for a similar, original mod that is on the making.

[ptx0]

nope, not violating licenses.

[rlidwka]

You should stop distributing these mods, as you are violating the licenses. Let's show some respect for the authors who created them in their free times.

Licenses are a technical detail which is for lawyers to argue. It can go either way.

As far as respect goes, author of LTN tracker (eduran84) is not answering, I believe many people (including factorio devs) tried to contact him. In this scenario the best way to show respect may be to continue his work, providing proper attribution, as far as license can reasonably allow it, which as I said is arguable.

Why are you assuming that author of LTN tracker doesn't want people on 0.18 to use his mod? I've found no such statement on forums, github or anywhere else.

[Deadlock989]

Why are you assuming that author of LTN tracker doesn't want people on 0.18 to use his mod? I've found no such statement on forums, github or anywhere else.

Because he put a freakin' license on it. Doh.

[rlidwka]

Why are you assuming that author of LTN tracker doesn't want people on 0.18 to use his mod? I've found no such statement on forums, github or anywhere else.

Because he put a freakin' license on it. Doh.

Yes, and it allows minor modifications for compatibility reasons.

Look, license is nothing but copy-pasted peace of lawyerese. It may contain errors just like the rest of the code may contain errors. If there is any dispute (which there is), it's a common sense to make reasonable steps to contact mod author and ask for clarifications. "Is this mod stopped being updated because you don't have time to update it? Or is it never intended to work on 0.18?" That question has been asked. No answer. Only thing we can do is try to guess which one is more likely.

[Deadlock989]

So because someone doesn't immediately respond to hassle from randoms off the internet, you can do whatever you like with their shit, up to and including slapping your own name on it and distributing it on a forum because you know it'll go down like a ton of bricks on the official portal.

Gotcha.

[rlidwka]

So because someone doesn't immediately respond to hassle from randoms off the internet

1. "Immediately"? How much time should someone reasonably wait for a response? A week? Two weeks? A month? That person was inactive for half a year.
2. "Randoms off the internet"? One may argue that factorio dev team are not randoms as far as mod portal questions are concerned. An attempt to contact has been made with no known response so far.

you can do whatever you like with their shit

I find it very funny how someone can ask to treat mod author with respect and call their work "shit" at the same time.

up to and including slapping your own name on it and distributing it on a forum

I agree that attribution isn't ideal here. Please suggest a better way to convey the information that ptx0 isn't an author, but merely a person applying compatibility changes.

because you know it'll go down like a ton of bricks on the official portal.

It exists on the official portal. Currently distributed on a forum because of compatibility reasons with newer LTN versions (which I, respecting Optera as a developer, believe to be accidental, to be fixed in later versions).

[Deadlock989]

Please suggest a better way to

Can't be bothered to banter with someone trying to justify grave-robbing. Make yourself think it's OK however you like.

[khalismur]

Licenses are a technical detail which is for lawyers to argue. It can go either way.

No! Big, huge NO! Licenses have to be respected in the open source community.

As far as respect goes, author of LTN tracker (eduran84) is not answering, I believe many people (including factorio devs) tried to contact him. In this scenario the best way to show respect may be to continue his work [...]

Does not matter what you believe. If he wanted people to continue his work he'd have that in the license. He did not want anyone to redistribute without his permission, hence the license.

Why are you assuming that author of LTN tracker doesn't want people on 0.18 to use his mod? I've found no such statement on forums, github or anywhere else.

I never assumed that. The software simply isn't updated and if people want to use it, they should downgrade the game and all LTN Tracker dependencies to the released version, that's it. There's zero assumptions there. I'm only trying to remind someone who's violating a FOSS license that they should not do it.

[rlidwka]

I'm only trying to remind someone who's violating a FOSS license that they should not do it.

There are two mistakes in that one statement:

1. he's not violating it ("Exceptions to the no modification rule include: Minor bug fixes/tweak for compatibility reasons")
2. it is not a FOSS license (neither free nor open source)

[khalismur]

I'll bite slightly. You are right it isn't free, but it is OS (https://github.com/eduran84/LTN_Tracker).

Regarding the license, you are well aware what he's doing is against what the original author intended. There's nothing else to be discussed. His modifications go against the authors intentions, even though not clearly prohibited unambiguously by the license.

[ptx0]

I am in contact with eduran84 who now has a baby, go complain about license violations to someone else who's just trying to help players out.

[Donnti]

I am in contact with eduran84 who now has a baby, go complain about license violations to someone else who's just trying to help players out.

Did he say what you did was just fine? I believe that what you did to fix LTNT was within the license as it was just for a compatibility reason. I like LTN but I am going to start a new game and use TSM until there is a working tracker version for LTN.

[proclion]

So because someone doesn't immediately respond to hassle from randoms off the internet, you can do whatever you like with their shit, up to and including slapping your own name on it and distributing it on a forum because you know it'll go down like a ton of bricks on the official portal.

Gotcha.

Please suggest a better way to

Can't be bothered to banter with someone trying to justify grave-robbing. Make yourself think it's OK however you like.

From an ethical (as opposed to legal) viewpoint, updating a mod/game/other piece of software to work with a new version of the game/hardware where the original creator(s) are uncontactable seems like a straight win. No one loses out and people get to use the mod/software.
At least if you're using anything vaguely consequentialist as your ethical system...

[GrumpyJoe]

He's not violating it ("Exceptions to the no modification rule include: Minor bug fixes/tweak for compatibility reasons")

As someone who isn´t that much into coding, but wants his modded games working:
If i came across this and wanted to solve the 0.18 issue, i´d think: "tweak for compatibility reasons"? That sounds like its ok to upgrade it, if the auther wont/can´t
This has been done more than once over the years

As someone who is not a lawyer:
I´d say "minor bug fixes" even sounds like i can bugfix, if i find any, and reupload the whole thing
Tho, I wouldn´t do that.
If that meant its ok to fix my own copy and never redistribute it, i dont need someone to allow that in the first place (modify code on my machine) and is just lawyer speak for "i can write a legal sentence"

What you need to keep in mind is, people are different and have different backgrounds. Are we lawyers? Are we experienced coders? Do we even know what licences are?

LTNT is useless without LTN, there is nothing to be gained here.
On 0.18 release I gave away ownership of a little mod i wrote a year ago, to make pY less painful, because i didn´t have the time to simply change one line and upload.
But then again, i dont need to piss my name in the snow to claim it.
Frankly i dont care about MY stuff that i previously gave away. If it was only for me, i´d never had published it in the first place. I wanted to help people who felt the same. (save yourself to search for it. Yes there is a licence on it, but i just randomly clicked one)

I bet the people complaining here never cared to message Eduran about the "issue", they just jumped on an opportunity to rage, just like grammar nazis.

just my 2 copper cables


I know, licences are important!, but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A