[1.0] Sea Block Pack 0.4.10

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mexmer
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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by mexmer »

jodokus31 wrote:
mexmer wrote:
jodokus31 wrote:
fiery_salmon wrote: Is reaching Lazy Bastard challenge intended to possible? I plan on reaching it (in spirit, additionally it would be nice if game recognized it) and I may check whatever it is possible to win with crafting within limit in SeaBlock.

There is no point in doing that and posting about if that it fixes for that (changing starting equipment) would not welcomed if it is already known to be impossible.
I'm pretty optimistic, that its doable in 0.16:
Assembly machine 3 Lazy Bastard
It is a big puzzle to find out, how to avoid crafts, esp. until Assembly Machine 2, which can craft 4 ingredients and the most part of the tier 1 machines :)
And its a bit grindy, because u cannot scale so well (i sacrificed some crafts for assembler 1's) and no yellow inserters. (Took about 5 hours and 77 crafts to get to this point)
Until then, its hard because some smelting buildings require 5 ingredients. I sacrificed some crafts for casting, strand casting and induction furnace.
And its hard, because handcrafting saves a lot of power :)
Now i have Assembly Machine 3 and I hope that nothing severe will happen :D

Sidenote: I use ScienceCostTweaker, which may have an impact. good or bad
Sct will probly make thing harder, due more intermediates, never tried to do lazy bastard with seablock, since with bobs + angels is not possible. But trainwreck tweaks, might change it to possible state
The biggest problem with regular Bobs+Angels is that you have to craft every intermediate and the power generation. Alone the lab requires ~50 crafts. I think, if you would start with 10 basic circuits in inventory, it would be possible.
In seablock there is a big stockpile of iron, gears, circuits, power poles, etc. And you have free power.
Anyway, its a great challenge to actually do it. A special challenge is the fuel, which you could handcraft from cellulose fiber, but that are big amounts of crafts. So you need to get started green algae with 2 wood pellets (13 crafts), which was possible :)
I can recommend this challenge, if someone has an affinity for this kind, because you can easily craft something wrong or run out of space, spend the provided ingredients on unneccesary things, etc. I needed a second try to actually manage it.
right, i forgot that free item stack, that helps tremendously. otherwise imo impossible.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by Trainwreck »

thuejk wrote:So trying 0.16 Sea Block.

I am now trying to make the 2 Drydock Assembly Components for SpaceX. Each take 50 Assembly robots, which each take 5 Fusion Powered Construction Robots, which each take 1 Portable Fusion Reactor, which each takes 250 Processing Units.

So in all, just for Drydock Assembly Components, I need 2*50*5*250=125000 Processing Units. Which is more Processing Units than you need for all yellow science for SpaceX (91726); and Processing Units are the hardest part of those sciences.

This seems excessive and disproportionate for the first component you need to build for SpaceX. All the other SpaceX components are far cheaper.
My numbers show the drydock assembly is cheaper than both the FTL drive and fusion reactor. It's still more expensive than what the first stage should be. I'll change the recipe so each assembly robot only needs one fusion construction bot instead of five.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by thuejk »

Thanks - much better already!

If I were to choose, I would lower it even more - it is still very expensive. Perhaps to 5 Drydock Assembly Robots instead of 50? That will still require 10 fusion reactors in total for Drydock Assembly Components, which seems proportional to the stage of SpaceX - the fusion bots is only one part of one component, after all.

Note that in 0.15 seablock, it only took mk4 bots, not Fusion Powered bots. Even with a total of 10 Fusion Powered bots needed in my suggested revision, 0.16 is still more expensive than 0.15 was. Do you know if the change to make Drydock Assembly Components soooo expensive in 0.16 SpaceX was fully intentional?

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by Trainwreck »

thuejk wrote:Thanks - much better already!

If I were to choose, I would lower it even more - it is still very expensive. Perhaps to 5 Drydock Assembly Robots instead of 50? That will still require 10 fusion reactors in total for Drydock Assembly Components, which seems proportional to the stage of SpaceX - the fusion bots is only one part of one component, after all.

Note that in 0.15 seablock, it only took mk4 bots, not Fusion Powered bots. Even with a total of 10 Fusion Powered bots needed in my suggested revision, 0.16 is still more expensive than 0.15 was. Do you know if the change to make Drydock Assembly Components soooo expensive in 0.16 SpaceX was fully intentional?
Not entirely intentional, guess I overshot a bit for the drydock assembly. The overall increase in SpaceX costs is intentional. One of the things the bothered me about 0.15 sea block was that building the SpaceX components was too easy compared to doing the SpaceX research. By the time you had built a base large enough to complete the FTL research then building 500 of each module to build the FTL drive itself was trivial. This should no longer be the case with factorio 0.16 sea block.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by Trainwreck »

Time for new beta release: SeaBlockPack_0.2.2.zip EDIT: Outdated, check first post for latest version.

It should be mostly stable now. Not planning any major changes.

Changes since 0.2.1:
  • Added ScienceCostTweakerM mod.
  • Added Angel's warehouses mod.
  • Add hidden flag to disabled items (coal, cellulose-fiber-board...)
  • Adjust cliff collision to allow cliffs to spawn on shoreline
  • Remove researching_speed bonus from lab-2. Base lab-2 speed is now the same as other labs.
  • Merge Bob's fluids item group into Bob's materials. Leaves a total of 15 item groups which fit into 3 rows of 5 groups in the crafting window.
  • Reduce number of fusion construction bots required to build an assembly bot (5 -> 1)
  • Reduce number of portable fusion reactors required to build the SpaceMod fusion reactor (100 -> 50)
  • Add chrome ingredient to advanced processing units
  • Increase stack_size of processing unit and advanced processing unit to 200
  • Prevent landfill overwriting minable tiles (concrete, stone etc..)
  • Update all mods to latest versions.
The KS_Power diesel generator can burn methane, fuel oil, naphtha or diesel.
The way electric generators handle steam above their maximum temperature appears to have changed from factorio 0.15. Exceeding the maximum temperature will now waste energy, so make sure your generators can handle the increased temperature when upgrading boilers.
Last edited by Trainwreck on Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by Bilka »

Trainwreck wrote: The way electric generators handle steam above their maximum temperature appears to have changed from factorio 0.15. Exceeding the maximum temperature will now waste energy, so make sure your generators can handle the increased temperature when upgrading boilers.
There's a prototype property that was added in the next version (0.16.26) that undoes this change. You can find info on it here: viewtopic.php?p=345390#p345390
I'm an admin over at https://wiki.factorio.com. Feel free to contact me if there's anything wrong (or right) with it.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by Trainwreck »

Bilka wrote: There's a prototype property that was added in the next version (0.16.26) that undoes this change. You can find info on it here: viewtopic.php?p=345390#p345390
A scale_fluid_usage boolean in the generator prototype, interesting. I wonder if we'll be seeing some bobpower updates after 0.16.26 arrives.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by jodokus31 »

Trainwreck wrote: [*] Add chrome ingredient to advanced processing units
Oh dang :) That's will make the ferrous ore refining chain mandatory. Great idea, with mixed feelings :D

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by thuejk »

One of the things the bothered me about 0.15 sea block was that building the SpaceX components was too easy compared to doing the SpaceX research. By the time you had built a base large enough to complete the FTL research then building 500 of each module to build the FTL drive itself was trivial. This should no longer be the case with factorio 0.16 sea block.
I actually liked 0.15 SeaBlock for being mostly about designing new layouts, and not so much about replicating a e.g. a zillion Iron and sludge builds. So if you could design it, you got it, and didn't have to build a gigantic raw materials setup. There is slowness enough in the SeaBlock challenge to not also need to force mass quantity slowness.

But in 0.16, the various circuit and module recipes are so much more expensive, each new level taking several of the previous level products; there is much more grinding. And I can only expand so much before UPS starts dropping, making further replication counterproductive.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by lol10096 »

You need to research Automation and a lot more things to be able to even craft a fucking lab. wtf?

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by jodokus31 »

lol10096 wrote:You need to research Automation and a lot more things to be able to even craft a fucking lab. wtf?
No, you need to do some specific stuff like crushing stiratite, craft a circuit, craft an green algae.
At the end of this chain, the lab is unlocked.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by mrvn »

jodokus31 wrote:
lol10096 wrote:You need to research Automation and a lot more things to be able to even craft a fucking lab. wtf?
No, you need to do some specific stuff like crushing stiratite, craft a circuit, craft an green algae.
At the end of this chain, the lab is unlocked.
The tech tree says I need a certain number of things but somehow it unlocks on the first item I build. Is that normal?

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by jodokus31 »

mrvn wrote:
jodokus31 wrote:
lol10096 wrote:You need to research Automation and a lot more things to be able to even craft a fucking lab. wtf?
No, you need to do some specific stuff like crushing stiratite, craft a circuit, craft an green algae.
At the end of this chain, the lab is unlocked.
The tech tree says I need a certain number of things but somehow it unlocks on the first item I build. Is that normal?
I did it with version 0.2.0 and the tech unlocked, when I picked up the first item of crushed stiratite or the first item of manual crafting was finished. I cannot recall, if it was bound to quantities in the tech description.
Maybe something changed with 0.2.2?

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by mexmer »

lol10096 wrote:You need to research Automation and a lot more things to be able to even craft a fucking lab. wtf?
that would not make sense, don't you think?

since how can you research without lab?

as others pointed out, it's progression unlock. you need to meet certain criteria and it will get unlocked automatically, there is few tech in seablock, which unlocks this way.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by fiery_salmon »

Why my wind turbines flash red "power missing" symbol. These are power generators and do not require power to operate - right?

Wind turbines are connected and powering my factory, factory is powered by fully utilized wind turbines supplemented by steam engines that are operating at partial capacity. It seems that any fully-utilized wind turbines will start flashing this red symbol what is quite irritating,

BTW, power from wind turbines is very stable - I expected major fluctuation, up to and including complete loss of power.
Trainwreck wrote:Time for new beta release: SeaBlockPack_0.2.2.zip

It should be mostly stable now. Not planning any major changes.

Changes since 0.2.1:
Is it a good idea to update from previous SeaBlock release or is it necessary to start a new save?

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by jodokus31 »

fiery_salmon wrote:Why my wind turbines flash red "power missing" symbol. These are power generators and do not require power to operate - right?

Wind turbines are connected and powering my factory, factory is powered by fully utilized wind turbines supplemented by steam engines that are operating at partial capacity. It seems that any fully-utilized wind turbines will start flashing this red symbol what is quite irritating,

BTW, power from wind turbines is very stable - I expected major fluctuation, up to and including complete loss of power.
Yes, thats the same, what I thought. But I guess, it should be adressed to KS_Power mod
fiery_salmon wrote:
Trainwreck wrote:Time for new beta release: SeaBlockPack_0.2.2.zip

It should be mostly stable now. Not planning any major changes.

Changes since 0.2.1:
Is it a good idea to update from previous SeaBlock release or is it necessary to start a new save?
I updated from 0.2.0 -> 0.2.1 -> 0.2.2, so far no problem.
I guess from 0.1.x, it will be a bit problematic, because in the best case you have to redo several builds.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by mexmer »

fiery_salmon wrote:Why my wind turbines flash red "power missing" symbol. These are power generators and do not require power to operate - right?

Wind turbines are connected and powering my factory, factory is powered by fully utilized wind turbines supplemented by steam engines that are operating at partial capacity. It seems that any fully-utilized wind turbines will start flashing this red symbol what is quite irritating,

BTW, power from wind turbines is very stable - I expected major fluctuation, up to and including complete loss of power.
Trainwreck wrote:Time for new beta release: SeaBlockPack_0.2.2.zip

It should be mostly stable now. Not planning any major changes.

Changes since 0.2.1:
Is it a good idea to update from previous SeaBlock release or is it necessary to start a new save?
generators need to be connected to power network (eg. have nearby electric pole), or they will show no electricity symbol. it's vanilla factorio thing, just slap generator on ground, without pole nearby and you will see :D

as for wind, there can't be fluctuation because there is no wind at all in factorio. Wind turbines works on handwavium principle. Factorio currently doesn't have weather nor wind mechanics (i'm not sure, if they even plan to add that), while you might see weather effects, they are just visual simulation without any impact.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by mrvn »

That's not what he is talking about. Wind turbines with poles start flashing when power generation doesn't meet demands. Problem is that also happens when the remaining power demand is supplied by steam engines. So basically they are flushing all the time after the first hour or so.


As for wind turbines fluctuating: Mine do. They don't generate a constant amount of power but go up and down slowly over time.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by mexmer »

mrvn wrote:That's not what he is talking about. Wind turbines with poles start flashing when power generation doesn't meet demands. Problem is that also happens when the remaining power demand is supplied by steam engines. So basically they are flushing all the time after the first hour or so.


As for wind turbines fluctuating: Mine do. They don't generate a constant amount of power but go up and down slowly over time.
if you mean sine fluctation, that one is created arftificialy, Klonan explained it somewhere on forums (maybe electric energy thread in suggestion or somewhere), it's simulated in similar fashion like daylight cycles, just daylight is done by game engine, while "wind" is done by lua scripting, and fluctutation is rather minimal, so in long term you don't notice it unless you always running at edge of power production.

as for flushing, yes i see what you mean, didn't thought about it.

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Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Post by lol10096 »

mexmer wrote:
lol10096 wrote:You need to research Automation and a lot more things to be able to even craft a fucking lab. wtf?
that would not make sense, don't you think?

since how can you research without lab?

as others pointed out, it's progression unlock. you need to meet certain criteria and it will get unlocked automatically, there is few tech in seablock, which unlocks this way.
Which criterias lol

PS: I crushed saaphirite and stiratite, and made green algae. I am able to craft the labs but i need to research Automation to get assembly machines to make wooden boards for basic circuit boards.

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