[MOD 0.13] Black Market (sell and buy on the market)

[Airat9000]

prices should change on supply, demand, and consumption
You will radically change the depth of your mod if you implement this.

I like your emphasis

Prices already change on supply and demand (sales and purchases).
But I do not understand how consumption is supposed to influence prices ? If a player mines iron, creates and then consumes a lot of iron-plates, what should happen ? If he does this process on his own planet, in his own factory, it's only a local process : the universal black market won't be aware about it, and prices won't change...

dynamic prices in fix please

a very long time there is one price for sale .. as soon as the price changes? and goes up if you do not sell ..??

[binbinhfr]

dynamic prices in fix please
a very long time there is one price for sale .. as soon as the price changes? and goes up if you do not sell ..??

... not easy to understand.
If anyone on the map sells a lot, prices are going down to x0.5.
If anyone on the map buys a lot, prices are going up to x2.
Both effects can be mixed.
If everybody stop selling and buying, the price slowly returns to its normal value.

[Airat9000]

dynamic prices in fix please
a very long time there is one price for sale .. as soon as the price changes? and goes up if you do not sell ..??

... not easy to understand.
If anyone on the map sells a lot, prices are going down to x0.5.
If anyone on the map buys a lot, prices are going up to x2.
Both effects can be mixed.
If everybody stop selling and buying, the price slowly returns to its normal value.

If anyone on the map sells a lot, prices are going down to x0.5.
understand

If anyone on the map buys a lot, prices are going up to x2.
understand
Both effects can be mixed. - who is day? hours?

and find bugs
1.0.22 - items in lost!

1.0.20 - normal works in items

[binbinhfr]

> Both effects can be mixed. - who is day? hours?

prices are updated every day at 12:00

> and find bugs 1.0.22 - items in lost! 1.0.20 - normal works in items

please give me the precise name of the items that have value 0. The icon of your screencopy is not enough...

[Airat9000]

> Both effects can be mixed. - who is day? hours?

prices are updated every day at 12:00

> and find bugs 1.0.22 - items in lost! 1.0.20 - normal works in items

please give me the precise name of the items that have value 0. The icon of your screencopy is not enough...

substation mk4
assembling machine mk6

[devilwarriors]

EDIT 2 : alas this event does not seem to be triggered on entities that are not supposed to be copied. Work on chests for example, but not on accus...
But I will make the default period equal to the default period in the main menu. It will help.

ahhh too bad, it would still be nice if you could make the buy chest support it. Copy/paste the period an the items being ordered.

[devilwarriors]

You could probably support copy pasting those value when you do blueprint tho, so you could use a blueprint to place a lot of accumulator that already have their order maxed so you don't have to set them all one by one.
They don't hold much power so you need a lot to do any meaningful trading of power.

[devilwarriors]

another idea to make this easier, when you select one of the trade entity you could show a lite version of that entity gui just to pick the default value for period, automation, order, etc and then give those value to any entity placed after that.

you could use on_player_cursor_stack_changed to detect that the player is trying to place one of your entity (if the player is suddenly holder a stack of trading accumulator you know that he's about to place one down, when that event trigger and the cursor is suddenly empty, you check if you have a gui open and close it).

[mavzor]

prices should change on supply, demand, and consumption
You will radically change the depth of your mod if you implement this.

I like your emphasis

Thank you.

I included what I think is a good article from a developer on game economics.
I also suggest the example of Soren Johansen's Offworld Trading Company as an excellent example of this.
http://offworldtradingcompany.gamepedia.com/Market

But I do not understand how consumption is supposed to influence prices ?

The colony also acts as demand on the market.
http://offworldtradingcompany.gamepedia.com/Colony
And the market has its own pricing forces.

Is this simple? No.
Soren and his team spent years designing and balancing their work.
Should you choose to go down this path, through process of implementing this you will learn a great deal about balance, economics, and game design.

And that will be lasting value for you and your career far beyond this project.

[binbinhfr]

> I included what I think is a good article from a developer on game economics.
I also suggest the example of Soren Johansen's Offworld Trading Company as an excellent example of this.
http://offworldtradingcompany.gamepedia.com/Market

it says :

> Apart from the differences based on the number of players in a game, or the changes when a resource hits a price of $101, $201, etc..., the market works on a simple supply and demand model. Produce too much of a resource, and the price will eventually diminish.

as I told you, it is already what I am doing. "a simple supply and demand model"
I just do not use nb_players because in factorio this is not a relevant number : on public MP maps, you have a lot of players "subscribed", but not a lot of players at the same time. Factorio is far from a MMO. Most players plays single.

> The colony also acts as demand on the market.
http://offworldtradingcompany.gamepedia.com/Colony

I do not know this game, and I do not understand what relies behind this concept of "colony". It seems a wider concept, simulating faked people living on the same map. Nothing comparable to factorio, where you are supposed to be alone on your planet.

> And the market has its own pricing forces.

We already speak in previous posts that I could add some kind of random fluctuations to the market. But as Factorio API do not provide any graphical display (curves, etc...), it would be a pain for players to try to study/follow these prices variations and optimize sales/purchases, and at the end, people will give up, using fully automatic trading (remember taht factorio is about automation : user should not have to choose trading options every day). So I would implement complex routines for nothing. I think I won't go into this. Moreover, all these routines needs a lot of calculations and could slow down the game (I have the case with my Efficiensee mod that cannot work continously without slowing down the game, even with optimisations). Factorio mod API was not designed for such large calculations.

And that will be lasting value for you and your career far beyond this project.

My career ??? You know that I am not part of the Factorio team at all ? I am no game designer. I just have a few computer skills that I use for my pleasure, and in this case sharing the result with factorio community. By luck, I have a "classical" job for living, because Factorio costs me €20, but did not return anything

[binbinhfr]

substation mk4
assembling machine mk6

for me
substation mk4 164000
assembling machine mk6 = 161000

please send me your mod-list.json file so I can see what other mods you have.

also : click "export" and send me your BlackMarket-prices.csv

[binbinhfr]

ahhh too bad, it would still be nice if you could make the buy chest support it. Copy/paste the period an the items being ordered.

Yes I did.
And if you do not copy, the default period force is used (the one in the main menu)

Please test :

[binbinhfr]

1.0.24 - introducing signals : auto-all/auto-sell/auto-buy : change automatic mode of connected traders.
on (>1), off (=1), ignore (=0)

For beginners : use constant combinator to remote enable/disable several traders at once.

BlackMarket_1.0.24.zip

(1.16 MiB) Downloaded 182 times

[devilwarriors]

ahhh too bad, it would still be nice if you could make the buy chest support it. Copy/paste the period an the items being ordered.

Yes I did.
And if you do not copy, the default period force is used (the one in the main menu)

Please test :

Work like a charm, thanks

[binbinhfr]

Work like a charm, thanks

By the way, are your prices ok ?
Because it seems that Airat has problems but I cannot reproduce them...

[devilwarriors]

Work like a charm, thanks

By the way, are your prices ok ?
Because it seems that Airat has problems but I cannot reproduce them...

No not really, beside maybe slag with yuoki is worth a bit too much. There 2 recipes that eventually turn it into stone brick, but the result of the first recipe is worth 3-4 times more than if you turn it to stone brick.

But point me to Airat post about this and I'll give it a try.

---

My main problem right now is that the accumulator hold a too small charge to make any meaningful impact on my setup when I need emergency power.
And setting large field of them is too much work since you need to set their option one by one.
They are also quite expensive.

Maybe the building should hold a larger amount of power and not cost any batteries, only the materiel needed to make a building that would hold the battery that the market lend to you.
The cost of the battery rental would be covered in the tax you pay in the transaction.

[Airat9000]

substation mk4
assembling machine mk6

for me
substation mk4 164000
assembling machine mk6 = 161000

please send me your mod-list.json file so I can see what other mods you have.

also : click "export" and send me your BlackMarket-prices.csv

I have none at all! may be due to the fact that I have added 2 more fashion .. I have somewhere 82 mods)

idea
1) to make even more types of accumulators and tanks for the sale and purchase of resources.
that would take a little place))

2) technology for their discovery

find bug - electricity in buy - not pay money
questions - free electricty?

[binbinhfr]

No not really, beside maybe slag with yuoki is worth a bit too much. There 2 recipes that eventually turn it into stone brick, but the result of the first recipe is worth 3-4 times more than if you turn it to stone brick.

well prices are all build the same way, using techno costs, ingredients costs, energy costs. I did not find the items you are talking about. Please give me the precise name as you can find them in the price menu.

But point me to Airat post about this and I'll give it a try.

viewtopic.php?f=92&t=30889&start=130#p197504

My main problem right now is that the accumulator .... They are also quite expensive.
Maybe the building should hold a larger amount of power and not cost any batteries, only the materiel needed to make a building that would hold the battery that the market lend to you.
The cost of the battery rental would be covered in the tax you pay in the transaction.

Mouah ah !!! free accu : you can dream !!! nothing is free around here ! it's black market !! No rental : you build AND you pay tax !!!

But I agree that accus are expensive. In a first approach, I lowered all ingredients of traders. Now they are more proportional to the object content : the accu trader needs 2 normal accu to be build, but it's normal : it contains twice energy. It's already in the new version (please update).

In a second approach, I will introduce several tiers of traders, with larger content, like airat is asking. It will be in a further version.

1) to make even more types of accumulators and tanks for the sale and purchase of resources.
that would take a little place))
2) technology for their discovery

Yes I'll do this later.

find bug - electricity in buy - not pay money
questions - free electricty?

corrected here :

BlackMarket_1.0.25.zip

(1.16 MiB) Downloaded 177 times

[Qon]

Mouah ah !!! free accu : you can dream !!! nothing is free around here ! it's black market !! No rental : you build AND you pay tax !!!

But I agree that accus are expensive. In a first approach, I lowered all ingredients of traders. Now they are more proportional to the object content : the accu trader needs 2 normal accu to be build, but it's normal : it contains twice energy. It's already in the new version (please update).

In a second approach, I will introduce several tiers of traders, with larger content. It will be in a further version.

Well the accumulator sellers can't output anything, so they have 0 value as energy storage. And while the input/output of a megabase in a game-day can fit in a few chests you need hundreds of thousands of accumulators to power a megabase. And the accumulators are much more expensive than a chest. If you want to sell energy then making 100k sell-accus isn't really realistic. The buy-accus however can power your base, so they can actually be useful in your base. If they can be charged from your solar/steam then they are worth building. But wants to have both normal accus to store energy in and buy-accus? I don't know if it's possible but buy-accus should be able to take power as input like any normal accu. And if you want the sell-accu to keep it's 0 output then it needs to have at least a thousand times better input flow and storage capacity.

[binbinhfr]

I don't know if it's possible but buy-accus should be able to take power as input like any normal accu.

If you do this, they will charge whenever they can and when you want to buy, they won't have any room left...

And if you want the sell-accu to keep it's 0 output then it needs to have at least a thousand times better input flow and storage capacity.

They already have x2 capacity and x3input flow. Next tiers will be better.

For those who want to program these traders efficiently, you now have all the circuit things you need :
- power switch
- traders controlable by signals
- my timetools clock combinator that can detect luminosity