Role playing direction

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Role playing direction

Postby kovarex » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:42 pm

Classes
I could imagine having different classes you would choose at the start of the game, each would have different bonuses.
a) Engineer (better recipes for certain items (faster/cheaper circuit, some machines etc)
b) Fighter
c) Scientist (faster/cheaper research/upgrades)

we would certainly come up with more if we were to extend this idea.

This might start working, if we ever made some multiplayer mode, if 2v2 game was played for example, these classes would add more diversity into the game.

Experience + leveling
I'm afraid people would thing the game would become to wide, but I like the idea.
Get experience for doing stuff in certain categories (processed materials, built machines, kills), and level up.
Each category would offer different bonuses you could choose from to upgrade.

Exploration
Exploration is not interesting now, if we wanted to extend the roleplaying part, we would have to do a lot of with this, I can imagine more unique items, caves, different kinds of enemy bases etc.

Tools
There should be more tools that can help the player in several ways (bonuses, special actions), some of these would be craftable in the factory, some of these would require some unique ingredients that can be found only through exploration and/ore fighting.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby MatLaPatate » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:01 pm

The RP sounds cool: the idea of the classes would make the character useful, even if you're playing in RTS like 2v2 mode. Just chose what do you want to do: fight creatures, find rare ores and get some cool stuff/cool abilities experience-related, or prefer improve your logistic systems, then play your units in a more strategic way ?
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby kovarex » Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:14 pm

Yes, the best way I can imagine is to have both RP and RTS to choose from, it would be up to the player to choose what he wants to prefer.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby Mur » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:23 pm

I rather just focus on the multiplayer aspect of it and focus on something like this later. It would be nice to have two people helping build a base and fiddle with things.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby rdrdrdrd » Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:58 pm

Having separate classes would make the game more interesting
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby mngrif » Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:30 pm

For many reasons I told myself I wasn't going to get in on this topic, but, well, I can't hold back any longer.
rdrdrdrd wrote:Having separate classes would make the game more interesting

Wrong. Wrongwrongwrongwrong wrong WRONG. Stuff like this greatly limits the player. Even Dungeons & Dragons allows multiclassing and point-buy systems. Games tend to neglect it, but there is a wonderfuly simple way around it. Instead of picking classes, give stat/skill/whatever points that can be allocated by the player as they see fit.

For example, say I want my circuit boards to craft faster, so I'd put a few points in to Engineer. But I'd also like to kill aliens faster, so I'd put a few points in to Fighter. Maybe I change my mind once my base gets huge, so I start putting points in to Scientist so ammo for the turrets is cheaper.

With set classes, none of that can happen.

*gets off his soapbox*
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby rdrdrdrd » Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:16 pm

Valkor wrote:For many reasons I told myself I wasn't going to get in on this topic, but, well, I can't hold back any longer.
rdrdrdrd wrote:Having separate classes would make the game more interesting

Wrong. Wrongwrongwrongwrong wrong WRONG. Stuff like this greatly limits the player. Even Dungeons & Dragons allows multiclassing and point-buy systems. Games tend to neglect it, but there is a wonderfuly simple way around it. Instead of picking classes, give stat/skill/whatever points that can be allocated by the player as they see fit.

For example, say I want my circuit boards to craft faster, so I'd put a few points in to Engineer. But I'd also like to kill aliens faster, so I'd put a few points in to Fighter. Maybe I change my mind once my base gets huge, so I start putting points in to Scientist so ammo for the turrets is cheaper.

With set classes, none of that can happen.

*gets off his soapbox*

Thats just a different implementation of classes, it's just a custom class. What I think would be best would be having the stock character, then if you specialize there are positives and negatives for doing so.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby ( Tchey ) » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:30 pm

I don't like the idea of "class" in this game, i don't feel it fits.

Maybe some "perks" you can have with exclusives research instead ? You have the choice between :

More damage with personal weapon OR Faster walking speed

With an other research :

Less Expensive <stuff> OR Less damage from aliens

With an other one :

Faster Vehicule OR Better night vision

etc... If you take the first choice, you can never take the second one later.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby Arakasi » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:22 am

I think this "classifying" will push the game too much towards role playing and players will tends somehow to tuning their Hero instead of creating cool factory.

I like this game because its creation possibilities, analyzing and optimizing already existing structures. If we introduce classes or some self-developing mechanism than this great idea will loose its importance.

But maybe you should try to play some lightweight version of character classes mechanism and investigate how big impact on the game it will be.

On the other way upgrades, tools and devices which improve already existing Hero actions are welcome
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby orbito » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:30 pm

Good ideas!

kovarex wrote:Classes
I could imagine having different classes you would choose at the start of the game, each would have different bonuses.
a) Engineer (better recipes for certain items (faster/cheaper circuit, some machines etc)
b) Fighter
c) Scientist (faster/cheaper research/upgrades)

I would always choose "Research" to get the best weapons and armor faster. It seems the most logical one to pick.
kovarex wrote:Experience + leveling
I'm afraid people would thing the game would become to wide, but I like the idea.
Get experience for doing stuff in certain categories (processed materials, built machines, kills), and level up.
Each category would offer different bonuses you could choose from to upgrade.

Exploration
Exploration is not interesting now, if we wanted to extend the roleplaying part, we would have to do a lot of with this, I can imagine more unique items, caves, different kinds of enemy bases etc.

Tools
There should be more tools that can help the player in several ways (bonuses, special actions), some of these would be craftable in the factory, some of these would require some unique ingredients that can be found only through exploration and/ore fighting.


Exploration and Tools are important additions to a survival game. But I'm not sure leveling up is necessary, since in an RTS game advancements are simple researched. I would assume all player upgrades could be researched as well. I think you should focus on the Survival and RTS aspects, because RPG games are fun but adding in leveling might be redundant.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby MatLaPatate » Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:25 pm

orbito wrote:Exploration is not interesting now, if we wanted to extend the roleplaying part, we would have to do a lot of with this, I can imagine more unique items, caves, different kinds of enemy bases etc. --> Agreed.


There should be more tools that can help the player in several ways (bonuses, special actions), some of these would be craftable in the factory, some of these would require some unique ingredients that can be found only through exploration and/ore fighting. --> Agreed.

Exploration and Tools are important additions to a survival game. But I'm not sure leveling up is necessary, since in an RTS game advancements are simple researched. I would assume all player upgrades could be researched as well. I think you should focus on the Survival and RTS aspects, because RPG games are fun but adding in leveling might be redundant.
-->
I think it could be fun. Keep in mind that one of the key concept of Factorio is not to belong to any existing concept: it's half sandbox, half RTS, half Tower Defence ... it could be half RPG. (since 3*1/2 is already more than 100% ^^). Also keep in mind the future MultiPlayer mode: it would probably be both TD and RTS (and also, the 2 modes are likely to be split).
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby orbito » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:53 pm

MatLaPatate wrote:I think it could be fun. Keep in mind that one of the key concept of Factorio is not to belong to any existing concept: it's half sandbox, half RTS, half Tower Defence ... it could be half RPG. (since 3*1/2 is already more than 100% ^^). Also keep in mind the future MultiPlayer mode: it would probably be both TD and RTS (and also, the 2 modes are likely to be split).


Here I have to disagree. Research is more challenging and much more rewarding than a typical dungeon crawler leveling system would be in Factorio. Instead, I'd like to keep Research system and possibly add a way to "steal" technology from the enemy over time. Let's say the enemies drop pieces of technology in the form of an item, if you collect enough of these you get to unlock an alien technology. This would work well within the logic of the game. But adding in a D&D leveling system would be awful and pointless. Sorry to be blunt about it.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby Blackmoor » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:51 am

This game is versatile! :) I'd really like classes, more tools and areas to explore--such as underground areas. But how do you plan on adding in player leveling? I thought I read in another thread that abilities were going to be modified via armor slots that you could add upgrades to. This seems like a good start for player character upgrading. I don't know about EXP points per se, but someone else mentioned enemies dropping Science Packs to unlock technology that way.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby Xisuma » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:38 pm

Adding RPG elements to this game could take away from the unique gaming experience we have atm. It doesn't introduce anything we haven't seen before and would get in the way of doing what you want to do in this game which is manage resource flow and ensemble machines. If you want to add another dimension to the game i recommend something that compliments what you already have. My personal opinion is that the character is kinda unnecessary atm. This game could almost be played with that command and conquer style interface.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby MF- » Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:12 pm

Xisuma wrote:Adding RPG elements to this game could take away from the unique gaming experience we have atm. It doesn't introduce anything we haven't seen before and would get in the way of doing what you want to do in this game which is manage resource flow and ensemble machines. If you want to add another dimension to the game i recommend something that compliments what you already have. My personal opinion is that the character is kinda unnecessary atm. This game could almost be played with that command and conquer style interface.

same here.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby ficolas » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:19 pm

leveling have a problem.
grinding creepers is so easy
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby Pinkishu » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:11 pm

orbito wrote:I would always choose "Research" to get the best weapons and armor faster. It seems the most logical one to pick.


i would always go engineer ;)
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby Dakkanor » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:31 pm

for character upgrades there could be a different research tree for each class.

engineers could discover more efficient construction methods, like faster construction and cheaper recipies.

researchers could discover recipies to make science packs cheaper (like changing the output from 1 pack to 2) and extra weapon techs ect

and soldiers could find ways to speed themselves up in movement, or increase weapon damage and range.


OR have character upgrades more like a tree with a central point, so instead of three classes just have enough options to make characters unique (possible making certain upgrades exclusive)

i personally believe that making character upgrades go through the research section is the best case for factorio.
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby MatLaPatate » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:12 am

MF- wrote:
Xisuma wrote:Adding RPG elements to this game could take away from the unique gaming experience we have atm. It doesn't introduce anything we haven't seen before and would get in the way of doing what you want to do in this game which is manage resource flow and ensemble machines. If you want to add another dimension to the game i recommend something that compliments what you already have. My personal opinion is that the character is kinda unnecessary atm. This game could almost be played with that command and conquer style interface.

same here.


I'm not entirely disagreing but ... I think the game should be both RTS and RPG. Just makes it 2 different modes. That's just not the same way you want to play the game: a RPG system would be for player wanting to play something closer than Minecraft, and RTS for those that really want to play something original. And don't forget TD for the coop mode ^^
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Re: Role playing direction

Postby ficolas » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:13 pm

I totally dislike the rts direction, but I love the rpg direction
I prefer rpgs than rtss
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