Hidden ores

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Re: Hidden ores

Postby mrvn » Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:25 pm

This talk about hidden or infinite ores made me think.

In RL people first found coal, iron and copper on the surface. Then they started to dig big pits to mine it and later underground mines. Wouldn't it make sense to start with the simple burner mining drills just scrapping the surface and exhausting the surface deposits quickly. Then the electric mining drill (or advanced burner mining drill) can go deeper and last a new "deep mine" is added that goes even deeper and gets the last of the resources.
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Re: Hidden ores

Postby thetoolcrafter » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:18 am

kovarex wrote:Later in the game (advanced technologies would be needed for this), the player could start with underground mining, this would have 2 phases.

Searching for resources
Underground resources wouldn't be so easy to spot, the player would have to do special drills to scan the nearby underground, when he finds something there, specialised mining drills that mine underground could be used there.

Some of the resources could be found only in underground.



I love this idea, i really do, but i feel that if this was added, the game would feel minecraft-esque and it would totally change the game. I feel that factorio is unique right now, and i think if this happens, although it would be cool, it would be turned into a more 'common game'. Factorio is a 2D sprite game, so the game design would have to be changed. Dont get me wrong, I love this idea and would love to see it implemented, but i think it would be very hard to implement well
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Re: Hidden ores

Postby Alien_Squasher » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:11 pm

Personally, Devs, I'd like to see a series of procedurally generated z levels, even with an option to build upwards like a skyscraper or something. I think this would add a depth that, (no offense) has been lacking for a little while, but I would also like to caution you against making this Z level system too complex, as it would detract from Factorio's beautiful contrast of simplicity in theory and complexity in reality. I guess a good way to go about this Z level system would be to have several different aboveground layers, which would allow for mountains to be created to give the game a slightly more realistic feel, but at the same time keeping the amount of mountains generated to a controlled level where you have plenty of room to build factories on plains, (Like you do now) but mountains to build on and mine in, generally confined to mountain ranges with a few loose mountains here and there.. I personally think that the aboveground ore deposits are a good way to go about things, but I think you should make mines in mountains have a higher yield, albeit a slower mining speed until you upgrade your mining technology. and have the Z system work like this:
*Mountains which range from small hills to Mt. Everest
*A digging system which allows you to enter belowground levels via constructing a mineshaft, or other entry method, and have a number of procedurally generated levels belowground with cave like appearances, and each one of these levels acting like separate "worlds" with different appearances based on what Z level you are on (IE Lava lakes in Z -40 and underground lakes/rivers down to Z -39 and ores generated to the locale/Z number of that level.)
*A Skyscraper system which works similarly to the digging system in that you may place elevators/stairs/other entry methods in one floor of your factory that is walled using a separate kind of wall from normal ones (Structural walls?) that requires a closed shape with structural walls/gates that defines that there is a Z level above this, the only difference from the digging system being that you can see the regular world (Z 0) with a depth to represent that you are looking down upon it rather than it appearing flat.
*A mountain system that works exactly like the digging system, with the only difference being that it shows the normal terrain like the skyscraper system, and includes the ability to dig out of the mountain and interact with the world one Z level below where you currently are
*Bridging the gaps in the Z level logistics issue (IE getting an iron ore supply from a mine on level -19 to level 0 for smelting using something akin to the elevator system, all except with something akin to underground belts which utilize a certain length of x or y length to represent a belt angled upward in addition to the Z level climb (say 4 levels/belt) And for logistics bots/other bots you can either: use the mineshaft system or add in a special port for robots to descend/ascend. Same way for vehicles, and aliens.
*Mineshaft depth descent can be configured by clicking on it, and having a +- system for how deep you want to go. Same with the belts which ascend/descend.
As for the lategame resources I think that would not work. I think you should configure it where you have upgrades of mining technology in a single miner like the electric miner, that gets upgraded gradually like the weapons with a +x% for efficcency/speed instead of damage , and certain upgrades that allow you to tap into resources which you couldn't have harvested before, (IE take titanium ore from Bob's mods, and make that require a titanium extraction upgrade be researched but still keep the one miner mines all approach) And I know this sounds a lot like the modules system, but think about it, as time progresses you should theoretically, become better at mining things faster and getting more from a resource node than you did at the beginning if you research it, without the need to manually upgrade things using modules. That being said, it would also complicate things because making something more powerful as you go along makes it consume more energy, which is why I am going to suggest that you implement instead new modules for mining certain late game ores and then a miner module capacity upgrade system instead of hard upgrades, as this allows for a more modular (Pun intended :lol: that was awful for a joke...) approach, and allows for technological innovation as well. I also encourage you to expand the module system further to represent more technological innovation.

However, whatever you decide to do I must ask that you please keep a setting implemented in the world generator for a flat world, like it is now, because some people like that, and various settings for mountains and an enablement/disablement of the z system. This way you hit the largest sales base in addition to making a great game that many people can enjoy, and so in the end, we all get what we're asking for with the Z system.

Thanks for reading, Hope this helps,

Thad.
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Re: Hidden ores

Postby OkariDraconis » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:03 pm

Is this idea still up for consideration? IF so, I vote yes. Provided the Hidden ores work similar to oil.
Please review this idea when you get a chance
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Re: Hidden ores

Postby Ingolifs » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:03 am

I feel like i'm a little bit late here, but I had a similar idea recently.

In late game, a shaft mine becomes available. It can be placed anywhere and will produce ores at a slow rate. Most of what it produces would be stone (~80%), with the rest being coal (~10%), iron ore (~5%), Copper ore (~4%) and uranium ore (~0.1%). These relative amounts could be variable depending on location and over time.

As time goes on, the amount harvested from a shaft mine decreases. It shouldn't decrease exponentially (because then only a finite amount of ore could be extracted, due to how the exponential function integrates), but rather a function like yield=1/time, whose cumulative doesn't have a limit as time -->infinity.

To avoid shenanigans like deleting and replacing a mine to reset the time, this depletion could be calculated on a per chunk basis.
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Re: Hidden ores

Postby Deadly-Bagel » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:23 pm

Yeah but with only 5,000 iron wtf am I going to do with 80,000 stone? =s
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Re: Hidden ores

Postby Ingolifs » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:01 pm

Deadly-Bagel wrote:Yeah but with only 5,000 iron wtf am I going to do with 80,000 stone? =s


Make a really big castle?

The management of 'waste' resources isn't really a huge part of the game currently. There is a small window where the player has to deal with consuming heavy and light oil to keep the petroleum flowing, but once you get access to cracking this becomes irrelevant. If you want access to these 'free' ores you have to find ways of storing or using the excess stone and coal.

I would also support making stone more useful through Stone bricks -->Silicon -->Circuits and Solar panels. I suspect someone's already modded this.
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Re: Hidden ores

Postby wesalius » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:32 am

mrvn wrote:This talk about hidden or infinite ores made me think.

In RL people first found coal, iron and copper on the surface. Then they started to dig big pits to mine it and later underground mines. Wouldn't it make sense to start with the simple burner mining drills just scrapping the surface and exhausting the surface deposits quickly. Then the electric mining drill (or advanced burner mining drill) can go deeper and last a new "deep mine" is added that goes even deeper and gets the last of the resources.



I second this. On the surface should be only brown coal, that provides less energy per unit, it would be cool if with game progress player would gain access to mining which would give him black coal, which gives more heat/energy per unit.
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Re: Hidden ores

Postby Complex » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:50 am

Hi,

Please don´t add any Z-Leveles. Right now this Game requires you to carefully think and plan a clever layout in an confined two-dimensional space and that creates the special magic!

I could go with the idea of deep mines (as a building on the surface generating ore) but would refrain from adding to many new resources. it´s also part of the charm to facilitate everthing out of such few basic components with ever and ever more complicated factory-chains.

Maybe a deep mine could produce a infinite, but relativly slow output, giving you a logistigs problem to collect enought ore all over the map.

BR,
Daniel
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