(New) mod categories!?!

betka · Post by **betka** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:47 pm

I moved that thread into this one and linked it back. -- ssilk

IMHO there a huge cluster of the smaller mods which could/should be categorized, what does everyone think? and the main question, what kind of categories would be useful to everyone?

jockeril · Post by **jockeril** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:11 pm

That is an excellent idea !

I would start with "game changing mods" (Hardcorio), technology mods (Dytech), resource only mods (tree farm), mechanics mods (bob's mods).

I think I got it all right, the modders might correct me if I'm wrong

DaveMcW · Post by **DaveMcW** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:04 am

I would like a "user interface mods" category, that does not change game rules significantly.

Post by **ssilk** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:12 pm

I want to point, that Betka's is our new community manager, see https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 38&t=13318

I moved their thread into this "refurbished" mods-board, because not everybody in the forum is interested in discussing that.

I've some stakes for new categories:
- It should be clear, in which categories a mod comes. If we begin to create categories like "Extended weapons" and "Extended vehicle", then it makes no sense to have a category "Extended weapons and vehicles".

phpBB has no tagging system, so this is a problem to have categries, that are so general on one hand and so exact on the other, that it is always clear, where it should be searched.
- They don't need to hit, what the mod is doing. The current big mods are for example just, because the discussion about them are "big" (and the mod itself of course).

And a tip: It might be a good idea, to have categories, which are not targeting about, what is in the mod, but what the player wants to play. So instead of "Extended weapons" we can have a "Going into the outlands".

O.K. that's my points. Discuss.

SHiRKiT · Post by **SHiRKiT** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:38 pm

As I suggested previously, I think that the mods should be moved into a repository. There are some almost-ready things out there to be used (https://github.com/KerbalStuff/KerbalStuff or https://github.com/phpbb/customisation-db) that can help out with this. If things like this are not done, it's pretty much useless IMO to try to categorize mods into subforums, as mods becomes obsolete, changes directions and so on and so forth.

-------------------- If the idea above is not implemented, here's my followup idea --------------------
For me, a good structure for the Mods forum would be this

Main Forum
+ Contributions
-- Mod Releases
--- Work in Progress Mods
--- Obsolete Mods
-- Modding Discussion
+++ Big Mods (optional)
--- Mod Development help
--- Ideas and Requests for Mods
--- Modding Interface Requests

+ indicates category (no topics allowed) - indicates forum (posting topics is allowed)

This implies in the removal of 'Big Mods' section. It's cool to have a nice place for those mods and discuss things, but I think they promote a higher confusion than they help if the user is browsing for mods, downloading or installing. The good thing about that category is that it brings much discussion, so it's fair for them to have their own sub-forum for discussions (see Dytech subforum for example).

Each mod should have it's own separated topic. The author may combine their threads if the mod is modular (see Bob's), or they can create a thread like "Bob's Integrated Mods" that has links to the mod's modules.

-----Edit: added the paragraph below-----
For me, any attempt to put mod into categories, be it based on general rules that's not easily changeable or be not allowing being part of more than one category, will fail really hard, even if chosen by the mod developer. The best thing we could do is some kind of list in a topic that lists mods based on categories chosen by the developer. That way it's easily editable, people can insert new mods and it's not confusing for the player.

Also, anyone posting in 'Mod Releases' forum should follow a simple naming for the topic:
[THING FACTORIO_VERSION] MOD_NAME ('vMOD_VERSION' - DATE_UPDATED - DESCRIPTION)

The mandatory part is the three first items, anything between parenthesis is optional and may come in any order. Let's see a few examples:
[MOD 0.11.19+] F.A.R.L.
[MOD 0.11.19+] F.A.R.L. (Factorio Automated Rail Layer)
[MOD 0.11.19+] F.A.R.L. (Factorio Automated Rail Layer - v0.7.5)
[MOD 0.11.19+] F.A.R.L. (v0.7.5 - 04/July/15)
[MOD 0.11.19+] F.A.R.L. (Factorio Automated Rail Layer - v0.7.5 - 04/July/15)
[PACK 0.11.22] ShadowMegaPega (01/June/15)

These are all valid options.

Any mod in the 'Mod Releases' category that does not match the current major release should be moved to 'Obsolete Mods' (let's say a week after a new major release for giving people time).

There should A topic with all guidelines for mod authors, containing information like topic naming convention, usage of the 'Report post' to request a topic to be moved, zip file naming convention and anything else relevant.

Also, as an optional, there could be a Template that would help mod authors to create better looking topics, as they are easier to read and draw more attention.
- See an example of what was done in this topic: https://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/show ... ember-2012 - Although this is not the best, it's what we came up with, and it worked very well. It's not the nicest of the cleanest, but it works.
- https://www.phpbb.com/customise/db/mod/ ... emplate_2/

Post by **Klonan** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:51 pm

Okay well i reckon they need to be general enough to catch all of the stuff, but not so general that its hard to categorise mods.

So lets see.

Part mods/Part packs - Mods focused on adding parts to the game. Examples, Big wooden power pole (hehe my mod), mods which add new guns, tanks, cars.

Production mods - Mods focused on adding new production lines, either by using base game resources or adding new raw ones in. Can include parts, but not the focus. Examples, Ore processing, Peace mod (alien ore)

Gameplay/World mods - Mods which affect gameplay, terrain, resources, biters and more. Examples include RSO, Evolution etc.

Convenience /Fixing/Tweaking mods - Mods which only change a few things, focused on small issues, and making gameplay more enjoyable. Examples : Tree collision box, FARL, autofill

Overhaul mods: Mods majorly affect the way the game is played. Examples, DyTech, Bobs mods, Hardcorio, Marathon mod

Other mods: Mods that dont easily fit into any category, but isnt worth making a category for. Things like Thunder GUI comes to mind

This is just a rough idea of the categories in my mind. Interested to refine it further down to more succint and appropriate catergories.

Post by **ssilk** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:38 pm

@Shirkit: please don't mix this with an at some time maybe coming mod-db. The mod-db will have - if coming - tagging, and the mods are downloaded from there.

This is about how to manage the mods NOW.

We need really simple, short ideas.

betka · Post by **betka** » Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:52 pm

Thanks @jockeril, @DaveMcW and @Klonan, good points! and spot on with communication form for ideas

...what i want to know is what kind of groupping would feel naturally familiar, practical by the players/modders. If everyone knew the forum by heart, this would be just a cosmetic issue. But there are newcomers, or those who want to find similar/related mods to those they know already, ...
I will still let it stew here, maybe more people will have ideas, and then i will try to put it all together

@SHirKiT - thanks - the mod portal is planned, but it's a lot of work, it won't happen overnight, so now lets try to figure out a handy structure in here, too.

In other words, this discussion is to discover the rules that would work for seeing through the mods easier. We are not trying to fit the existing mods to some arbitrarily invented categories, we are shaping the (names of the) categories to the existing/predictable directions a mod can happen to have...

SHiRKiT · Post by **SHiRKiT** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 1:42 am

ssilk wrote:@Shirkit: please don't mix this with an at some time maybe coming mod-db. The mod-db will have - if coming - tagging, and the mods are downloaded from there.

This is about how to manage the mods NOW. We need really simple, short ideas.

Although mine is not short (the second, not the first one), it can simplified to not use categories whatsoever. Of course, it doesn't mean it's the best idea or it's the one that will be implemented. And it's nice to see, as @betka said, that is still planned a mod-db.

betka wrote:In other words, this discussion is to discover the rules that would work for seeing through the mods easier. We are not trying to fit the existing mods to some arbitrarily invented categories, we are shaping the (names of the) categories to the existing/predictable directions a mod can happen to have...

Then if it must have categories, I can suggest the following:

- User Interface mods: UI only mods. Blueprint, Remote FAT, Time

- Part mods: adds one or just a few mods for various reasons. Tanks, Recycling plants, Inserters, Pipes, Bost

- Gameplay mods: Games that are directly focused on adding, removing or changing gameplay. FARL, RSO, Easy Belt Layer, Inventory tweaks

- Overhaul mods: they are too big and changes too much of the game to be fit anywhere else. Bob's, Dytech, Hardcorio, Marathon

- Other / Mod Packs: doesn't fit in the other categories, like libraries, really small fixes or modpacks.

Sorry if the previous post was confusing, but as I said, my preference is in that order: Mod DB, no Categories (and have nice a topic doing the categorization), and then the subforum's categories above.

That's all I can add to this discussion for now.

keyboardhack · Post by **keyboardhack** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:25 am

Will add this to the other categories:
Texture mod.

Post by **Koub** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:59 am

The problem with making subforums is that a mod can't be in several subforums at once.
Maybe adding a simple template to the first post that clearly states which categories the mod belongs to, and use advances search to look through the mods would be more efficient.
The categories list would be a list we (Betka, the modding community, the moderators) would discuss and write down depending on what would have been discussed in this thread.

For example, imagine the template is something like that :

Mod name : Fancy transports with better UI
Mod version : 1.0.2
Last game version the mod is compatible with : 0.11.22
Categories : Textures, Interface, Vehicles
Description : (Here the text explaining what the mod does).

An advanced search in the mods section with the keywords Textures or interface or vehicles in the first post would get this mod.

The category list would have to be fixed and listed in an announcement post, so that all modders can pick whatever tags best fit their mods.

Post by **ssilk** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:39 pm

Koub wrote:The problem with making subforums is that a mod can't be in several subforums at once.

It can, with linked articles, but this is hard. And only one link is possible. I don't want to go that way.

I extended your template thing a bit, made it a bit more machine readable and added some fields, which are - in my opinion - needed to create a mod-db.

Code: Select all

ModName: Fancy transports
ModVersion: 1.0.2
ModRelease: 2015-07-05
TestedWithFactorioVersion: 0.11.22
Category: UserInterface
Tags: Textures, User-Interface, Vehicles
Description: Adding some UI stuff for transportation

More can follow here, but that is then not bounded to a form. Like
[size=150]Long description[/size]

[size=150]Pictures[/size]

[size=150]Version history[/size]

So we have one category. Not more. And tags, that describe that also.
Categories are fixed and we have only some of them, Shirkit's list is for example quite useful.
Tags are "free", you are not forced to use existing ones.

SHiRKiT · Post by **SHiRKiT** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:15 pm

This is an example of what we did in the Heroes of Newerth modding section: https://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/show ... lications)

It was a TON of work to setup it up, but updating was pretty damn fast.

Post by **Koub** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:00 pm

Well it was just to express my idea, and by no means a final version. The point is that past a page of mods or two, the use of a search engine becomes necessary, and I wanted to think of some way to arrange data so that it would give the expected results.

Post by **ssilk** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:30 am

And my stake is, that when we really become some mod db, it will safe us tons of work to sort that all in. Instead a scanner can just read all mods automatically into a db.

Choumiko · Post by **Choumiko** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:38 am

ssilk wrote:And my stake is, that when we really become some mod db, it will safe us tons of work to sort that all in. Instead a scanner can just read all mods automatically into a db.

My phpbb/MySQL knowledge is very rusty, so forgive me if i'm talking nonsense here:
Shouldn't it be possible to create a query that pulls: modname, category, tags, description (truncated to x characters) and the link to the modthread directly out of the phpbb-database and updates a specified post every few hours? This would result in an overview thread thats always up to date.

Whatever gets choosen (template or subforums), i think the biggest task is to find good names and descriptions for categories so that it's pretty clear what goes where.
Take for example where Klonan and SHiRKiT have put FARL: Convenience/Fixing/Tweaking vs. Gameplay. Now that's quite a difference for my understanding of the categories. If i were to categorize FARL it would be most likely Convenience (together with Blueprint, Default Request Amount, FAT Controller, Rail Tanker, etc).
I mostly categorize mods into convenience, overhaul (changing vanilla recipes/mechanics), extensions (adding recipes/mechanics and/or higher tier stuff, these mods can be added/removed without affecting a vanilla base)

As for the template: I think License should be added as a mandatory field, and optionally a field for the homepage/github.
Since 0.12 will be some kind of reset of the mods, I guess the Mod Forum rules should be updated to require a license, since this was discussed a few months ago anyways.

cpy · Post by **cpy** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 2:45 pm

Modpacks category maybe?

Tardan · Post by **Tardan** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:16 pm

SHiRKiT wrote:....
- User Interface mods: UI only mods. Blueprint, Remote FAT, Time

- Part mods: adds one or just a few mods for various reasons. Tanks, Recycling plants, Inserters, Pipes, Bost

- Gameplay mods: Games that are directly focused on adding, removing or changing gameplay. FARL, RSO, Easy Belt Layer, Inventory tweaks

- Overhaul mods: they are too big and changes too much of the game to be fit anywhere else. Bob's, Dytech, Hardcorio, Marathon

- Other / Mod Packs: doesn't fit in the other categories, like libraries, really small fixes or modpacks.

....

i like this proposal.

"part mods" can become sub forums for many similar mods like: inserter, belt, energy (plants/solar), fight (weapons/tanks/towers/armor) .....

Karosieben · Post by **Karosieben** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:21 pm

What we could do is provide a big list of mods like the guys on the Kerbal Space Program Forum do (See here!)

My point is, that there are some mods, that cannot be categorized clearly into categories like "Transportation" or "Weaponry". For Example, Bob's Mods. I wouldn't agree to tear this excellent package of features and things apart into 20 threads, spread across various categories. Mods like this need a seperate category like "Complete Overhaul". Or maybe something like "Mod Compilation".

It's just a basic idea. Let me know, what you think! I actually like the discussion of organizing the forum

Oh, and i forgot to say hello to betka! Hey there

YuokiTani · Post by **YuokiTani** » Tue Jul 07, 2015 4:07 pm

betka wrote: IMHO there a huge cluster of the smaller mods which could/should be categorized, what does everyone think? and the main question, what kind of categories would be useful to everyone?

who decide which mod goes/moved into a category ? - the modder, the forum-admins ?
as example a mod covers different things and has maybe addons - should the mod+addons splitted to fit into the new categorys or goes this then into modpacks/big mods ?
okay this is more a question for the modpacks/big mods, but when is a mod a big mod and a how many mods make a modpack ?
and how to prevent multiple postings the mod in every category it can fit ?

for me it's more the question if the developers want support mods in mid-future or if mod-support dropped after factorio version 1.0. (reason own DLC-Content)
and i'am still missing a licence-information about using factorio-graphics ... as example can everyone take factorio-graphics to make a fan-website or use this graphics to make a factorio-browsergame (and make money with it) ? - and as another example ... i use extracted blizzard graphics for a factorio-mod ... it's surely okay until blizzard's lawyers knock in prague at the door - not on my door because the forum provide the mod.
okay i'm off the subject ...

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