Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

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Cloner
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Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Cloner »

Some people are not satisfied with just building a rocket defence and want the game to go on and on. But in multiplayer massive factories start to lag and limit the ability to expand.
Together with my friends Drbln and PsihiusI, I have developed a nice method of production of circuits without using belts or robots - trains only. This causes minimal lag in multiplayer.

Here is where you produce (metal plates, copper plates, plastics are sourced by trains):
RGB production, click image to see full scale
Here is how you smelt:
Smelting
Here is how you do plastics (coal is delivered by train as well):
Plastics
Here is how you produce modules:
Modules
Zero belts, much profit :)

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Piranha
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Piranha »

This is awesome.

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Gandalf
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Gandalf »

Definitely a creative way of using those static wagons.
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Alekthefirst
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Alekthefirst »

I also found a way of doing this, but i used specialized Blue and red circuit "modules", where one blue module had two copper wire assemblers, two green circuit, one red and one blue...
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Cloner »

Alekthefirst wrote:I also found a way of doing this, but i used specialized Blue and red circuit "modules", where one blue module had two copper wire assemblers, two green circuit, one red and one blue...
I have started with something similar, but then thought that since trains carry the raw materials anyway, I could do the rpoduction without belts alltogether.

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Alekthefirst
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Alekthefirst »

I'm thinking of more stuff i can craft with these 6 assemblers 1 wagon design, as fps lag due to belts just increases when the base does
Already have smart inserters for blue pots set up in the same way now, one "module" can supply a little over three science labs making blue pots

EDIT:
this needs to be a thing;
see how many things can be produced with these assembler + cargo wagon "modules", as they are very tileable and neat-looking
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Xterminator »

This is pretty damn awesome if I do say so myself. :p would be pretty cool to see all the type of things can be made with this method. I would imagine quite a few!
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Alekthefirst
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Alekthefirst »

Here's mine for creating Smart inserters (With some upgrades to circuit and cable assemblers, the left one is almost feeding 10 labs with lab eff. 2)
Smart inserter
EDIT:
This should be able to craft solar panels just from iron and copper inputs. I did not consider any ratios or something, and didn't even bother with the inserters.
Solar
EDIT 2: ok so i just looked at the steel smelting time, to keep up those furnaces would need speed upgrades (as much speed as possible, preferrably. They give 3 steel/10 sec, so you need basically 3x speed in then to keep up, but the 2x achieveable should be good enough for ppl who aren't building solars by the millions each time)
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by ssilk »

Pretty cool, I always feeled, this combination is worth more experimenting.
See also this wiki-page: https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... hest.22.29
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Cloner »

Alekthefirst wrote: This should be able to craft solar panels just from iron and copper inputs. I did not consider any ratios or something, and didn't even bother with the inserters.
Solar
I see how you placed a wagon and have an advice for you - look how I placed them. In my placement each of 6 assemblers can reach the wagon both for input and for output. The trick is to lay 3 rails not 2 and make sure the wagon is hanging to one direction. Also the outer most inserters shoud face teh wagon.
Making sure that all 6 assemblers reach the wagon for input and output is critical.
ssilk wrote:See also this wiki-page: https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... hest.22.29
The wiki doesnt not mention the trick to load directly from train, which eliminates the need for laggy belts plus benefits from inserter stack. I have also solved the blocking problem of my old design by adding smart inserters at wagon loading.

If anyone wants to exploit this design more in multiplayer - Ill gladly join :) (EU 64bit)
Last edited by Cloner on Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Cloner »

Alekthefirst wrote:EDIT 2: ok so i just looked at the steel smelting time, to keep up those furnaces would need speed upgrades (as much speed as possible, preferrably. They give 3 steel/10 sec, so you need basically 3x speed in then to keep up, but the 2x achieveable should be good enough for ppl who aren't building solars by the millions each time)
Make steel elsewhere and deliver it by trains, like I do :)

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Alekthefirst
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Alekthefirst »

Cloner wrote:
Alekthefirst wrote:EDIT 2: ok so i just looked at the steel smelting time, to keep up those furnaces would need speed upgrades (as much speed as possible, preferrably. They give 3 steel/10 sec, so you need basically 3x speed in then to keep up, but the 2x achieveable should be good enough for ppl who aren't building solars by the millions each time)
Make steel elsewhere and deliver it by trains, like I do :)
That would also be a possibility, i just need to get trains going (am sort of stuck in a biter hell right now :D)
Factorio is a game about automating everything. One day, i hope i can automate shitty signatures just like this one.

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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Cloner »

Alekthefirst wrote:That would also be a possibility, i just need to get trains going (am sort of stuck in a biter hell right now :D)
Start with loco + 2 wagons, then switch to loco+2wagons+loco+2wagons - this serves 4 blocks at once.

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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by psihius »

Yes, this is the results you get when you make a new map and say "We are going for trains and fun" and everybody starts to do different stuff :D

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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by GenericKen »

Does this minimize lag in single player too?

Interestingly, it seems like a line of chests and fully upgraded fast inserters would have 4 times the throughput of an express belt. The line of wagons and fast inserters would have like 30.

5 objects across 15 tiles per half-second. Does that rival the throughput of a regular moving train?


EDIT - I just tested it. Train cars are 6 tiles long, not 15, and a pair of inserted on each end (with max upgrades) has about twice as much throughput as two lines of express belt, with substantially less latency to boot.

I wanted to ask you about your two material inserter scheme in your first example, with the red circuits. If your middle train car ever filled up with copper and wire with nothing to consume it (because it was plastic starved), wouldn't the loading inserters get stuck holding copper? Even if you had reserved car slots, he inserters would be unable to load plastic, since they're holding copper, right?
Last edited by GenericKen on Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by MadZuri »

I love these designs, and these ideas, but it reminds me of somethings... oh yeah, a suggestion I had: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=7856 Wouldn't it be awesome if there was a building that you could plop down instead of a train? I suppose trains work, but having a set size "locked to the grid" seems advantageous as a building, instead of a vehicle. Please pardon my shameless plugging of my own idea :geek:

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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by DRBLN »

UP :)

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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by MalContentFL »

I wonder what the mining outpost(s) looks like...

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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by Sheant »

I'm using wagons to load and unload my trains, you would think that is obvious, but I use them instead of the buffer chests.

Some notes:
  • This acts as a shared buffer, so it automatically balances.
  • The wagons allow filtering, which is good because there are no smart long handed inserters in the base game. I like to filter my loaders and unloaders.
  • I have considered placing 3 wagons to unload 2, to allow even faster (un)loading from/onto belts, or perhaps adding inserters/belts to the ends of the wagons for 9x2 inserters per wagon.
  • The double row of long handed inserters should be faster than a single row of fast inserters that people normally use, but I have not tested this myself.
  • The loader is a bit more compact than the one I see most people using (e.g. http://imgur.com/a/CxXxd#haRx9t3), that extends 9 from the track, mine only 8. But the unloader is much less compact.
  • When I use a regular loader/unloader I often use passive supplier chests to supply robot ran parts of my factory or requester chests to clean out unwanted bits from my storage chests.
Thoughts?
Factorio-Wagon-Loader.png
Factorio-Wagon-Loader.png (540.42 KiB) Viewed 18857 times
Factorio-Wagon-Unloader.png
Factorio-Wagon-Unloader.png (616.08 KiB) Viewed 18857 times

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MadZuri
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Re: Mass production with ZERO belts and robots :)

Post by MadZuri »

Sheant wrote: [*]The double row of long handed inserters should be faster than a single row of fast inserters that people normally use, but I have not tested this myself.
This is something I have tested, and thoroughly. Back in 0.11, double rows of long handed inserters was 50% faster than a single row of fast inserters when unloading a cargo wagon. In 0.12, they are exactly the same speed. Long handed inserters just use twice the space to perform the same function now. They are kinda needed to go from cargo wagon to cargo wagon, as the rails force a gap of 2. But from wagon to belt, or wagon to box, smart inserters or fast inserters is the better option.

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