show me your mass storage!

[mike_smit]

After playing for a while i got the tendency to mass store the main resources. I am curious how you guys solved the following problems.

- how to have your main resource input line be prefered over your storage
- how you have the most storage with the least amount of tiles used
- how you merge your storage output with the main input line but have the main line preferred over the storage output
- how you compacted everything

I will upload some pics of my storage when I am back home

**EDIT**

as promised the screenshots (unfortunatly later then planned)

1.jpg (522.12 KiB) Viewed 72847 times

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I store Iron ore, copper ore and coal each input line (iron has 2) will be split at 1/8 towards the storage and the storage output is remerged with lowest possible priority

currenty i am running into problems with this settup (mainly space constraints)

[MeduSalem]

Here's one of my prototype Mass-Storages I'm experimenting around with on one of my oldest maps:

2015-01-24_00003.jpg (807.79 KiB) Viewed 73247 times

I've 4 of them:

• Stone
• Coal
• Iron Plates
• Copper Plates

I don't store Iron/Copper Ore apart from some Buffer for the Smelter-Bank since there's no need for the raw ore and I'm able to store twice as many plates that way.

It's not yet fully fleshed out, there's room for a bit more Storage Chests obviously, and the arrangement of the Roboports may be optimized, but then again I also want some room so I'm able to walk through the entire setup.

There's 1000 bots reserved for each of the 4 storages so in total 4000 bots do the management. It would work with even less bots (about 500 would do I think) but if I suddenly decide to rearrange some of the Storage Chests or something for whatever reason I want it to be done quick and without much stalling from the Main-Line.

Here's a close-up on how I do cut off the over-production and how I re-insert them when the Smelter-Bank runs dry:

2015-01-24_00004.jpg (678.08 KiB) Viewed 73247 times

The Main-Line runs right through in the middle.

The Splitter-Cascades run the over-production to the sides where they are put into Active Provider Chests by Smart Inserters. The Smart Inserters are there to control how much is stored in the Storage Chests but it's a ridiculous high number obviously. xD

For the re-insert is just a mirrored version but with Requester Chests instead of Active Provider ones.

Btw. I noticed that I forgot to set Copper Plates in the Requester Chests in the above pictures. I guess that happened because I changed the direction in which the Main-Line runs through the Mass Storage a while ago. Before the vertical setup it was done in a horizontal manner.

[DerivePi]

Well Medusalemandius, that is quite inspiring

[Kevin94]

I'm trying to transport as much as possible by train, because this enables modular factory design and easy scaling of the whole factory. This is a storage module of my previous game, it is able to store 1.5 Mio ores or up to 6 Mio Circuits. I had one for each copper/iron ore and plates, sulfur, plastics, electonic and advanced circuits (in total 8 storages)

Train(1_3)Storage.jpg (555.19 KiB) Viewed 73108 times

This station is able to serve up to 4 trains per minute (each input and output) if the network around it were able support this without the high risk of deadlocking.

In my current world i am playing with trains composed of 4 locos and 8 wagons. The 4 Locos give the trains quite an acceleration boost, they still have the same top velocity, but its more likely they will ever reach it (i think it takes around 1000 tiles distance to speed up). A big disadvantage of long trains are train segments shorter than one train length have a high chance of causing a deadlock and rail crossings/circles ever beeing a bottleneck of your network and i haven't figured out yet how to solve these problems (on tight space) for a high throughput storage

[mike_smit]

let me bump this one since i added the screenshots

[DerivePi]

Let me recommend Medusalems approach to storage -
I started with the basic approach - inserter off the feed belt into a storage chest with another inserter from the chest onto an output belt (like mike_smit's arrangement). This arrangement, at its simplest requires 9 tiles for 2 chests of storage. And, the arrangement of the belts is not very flexible. With Medusalem's approach, apart from the initial output chests and re-input chests, the storage capacity, is 1 tile for 1 chest (neglecting roboport size). The downside is the need for robots and ports, but at this point in the game, these costs are no longer a big concern. Once the proper balance of ports and robots are achieved, the full throughput of the feed belts can be stored with little more thought to arrangement.

[MeduSalem]

I started with the basic approach - inserter off the feed belt into a storage chest with another inserter from the chest onto an output belt (like mike_smit's arrangement). This arrangement, at its simplest requires 9 tiles for 2 chests of storage. And, the arrangement of the belts is not very flexible.

Yeah, I started with that too... I had massive fields with inserter-based storages at some point. Eventually it just got out of hand. Good old memories though. xD

With Medusalem's approach, apart from the initial output chests and re-input chests, the storage capacity, is 1 tile for 1 chest (neglecting roboport size). The downside is the need for robots and ports, but at this point in the game, these costs are no longer a big concern. Once the proper balance of ports and robots are achieved, the full throughput of the feed belts can be stored with little more thought to arrangement.

Exactly. The expenses in logistic/robots become negligible at some point. ^^

The storage may be at any size you wish and you may have as many input/output belts as you want. I could at least triple the throughput if I wanted to without running into serious issues, not that it actually matters anymore at this stage of "endgame".

There may be better Roboport arrangements or neater Splitter Cascades though, something I'm still not quite satisfied with. One of the reasons why I didn't put any storage chests in the middle yet because I might still change something in the belt/inserter layouts.

[DerivePi]

Here's a different take on Medusalem's layout
- I am showing a capacity for 4 express lanes in and out of storage. This has the option of storing the ore before it goes to the furnaces (not necessary at all, but it's nice to have options). As with Medusalem's, the branches off from the main trunk lead to a series of active providers that put the material into the robot system. The braches leading back are requester chests that put the material back on the belts in case of a shortage. There is enough covered space to store about 12 million ore.

From railroad to furnace and back requires about 1,000 express belts for the 4 lanes.

[LordFedora]

That... that's an autocad program, is there some expensive work you should be doing besides making blueprints of an imaginary factory?

Cause that shit is hella expensive, also, how'd you get it to look like that, cause that's cool...

[mike_smit]

I started with the basic approach - inserter off the feed belt into a storage chest with another inserter from the chest onto an output belt (like mike_smit's arrangement). This arrangement, at its simplest requires 9 tiles for 2 chests of storage. And, the arrangement of the belts is not very flexible.

Yeah, I started with that too... I had massive fields with inserter-based storages at some point. Eventually it just got out of hand. Good old memories though. xD

With Medusalem's approach, apart from the initial output chests and re-input chests, the storage capacity, is 1 tile for 1 chest (neglecting roboport size). The downside is the need for robots and ports, but at this point in the game, these costs are no longer a big concern. Once the proper balance of ports and robots are achieved, the full throughput of the feed belts can be stored with little more thought to arrangement.

Exactly. The expenses in logistic/robots become negligible at some point. ^^

The storage may be at any size you wish and you may have as many input/output belts as you want. I could at least triple the throughput if I wanted to without running into serious issues, not that it actually matters anymore at this stage of "endgame".

There may be better Roboport arrangements or neater Splitter Cascades though, something I'm still not quite satisfied with. One of the reasons why I didn't put any storage chests in the middle yet because I might still change something in the belt/inserter layouts.

This is actually the reason that i have started the thread. i am running into all sorts of problems late game and i am filled with regrets (why i didnt store iron/copper plates for example). most of my other items in storage are distributed to me via robots and stored in large quantities in storage chests.

The reason for using the insterter/chest arrangement is because of early game and the need to conserve power. i didnt want all inserters working all the time because of power consumption and the pollution coming with it from the steam settup. and the other reason for mass storing was that i wanted to empty the iron deposits as fast as possible to also minimize pollution time in the mining area.

but later in the game i dont really care for all those concerns as i have massive solar/accumulator arrays and spam my mining operations with lasers when they are utside my base. speaking of base, when i really want to i could just wall off so far from my starting base that the pollution doesnt even spread to the aliens ( as i did earlier as shown in the map screenshot, however all large deposits are depleted nearby


also i am finding it quite annoying that coal is only used to make plastics and fuel trains in late game meaning that i mid sized coal deposit could last you for maybe 10 hours or more

[iklarazu]

also i am finding it quite annoying that coal is only used to make plastics and fuel trains in late game meaning that i mid sized coal deposit could last you for maybe 10 hours or more

Consider using putting all turrets on a separate power loop and use steam engines to run it. Try not to go to town on Solar.

I've not really got to a stage where I have millions of copper/iron plates/ore in storage, I kinda stop playing by that point. I can't find enjoyment in collecting for the sake of collecting.

I love the autocad design though. It does inspire me to try something, but I think I'll wait for v12 and hope that it provides more options for oil.

[DerivePi]

IN REAL LIFE

[nobodx]

Not at home right now, so images will follow later.
And please note, I only use vanilla-stuff, cause I hate being dependant (is this the right word...) on mods.

My main-train-hub consists of 5 unloading lines with inserters>active provider chests, a big storage-chest-grid (for ~750k items) and a fleet of 2000 robots. It is used to ferry in the ores from my outposts. (Iron, copper, coal, stone and oil).

BUT it also features two loading lines for excess stuff.
The way I did it, was to connect all logistic-chest with cables, and when anything is above a threshold, it will be transported into a separate storage facility. If the resources inside my main-hub drops below another threshold, the trains bring those resources back.
The thresholds are set with a constant combinator.
The storage-facility is still a work in progress, and can hold "only" 2.000.000 items. But the distribution is working

http://imgur.com/a/ALOyS

[mophydeen]

Robots ftw.

Mmod increases the stack sizes by x10

Part of storage in the Sample map:

rrrr.png (2.27 MiB) Viewed 60623 times

[Lutz_Scheiter]

Vanilla-Storage w/o robots on an Train-Only Island.. (description below)

left side IN - right side OUT








My diamond



600 Chests x 2400 Items = 1 440 000 or
600 Chests x 4800 Items = 2 880 000 x 24 stations= ~70million items

Each 'station' will get its own train. Waiting-stations on top (mainland) is planed. Also need to wire logistics..

It took me 15h+ to plan, test & finish...

How its made

fail. missing one line... need to add a line of cars or tanks to get it

first planed setup with robots (can be added optional)


on the left side my used setup, later i found the right setup with less landfill,







landfill is used nearly perfect, can't get much less... (testing was fkn hard )

[hansinator]

I use these buffer modules for belt storage. It prefers giving resources to the main line and buffers/unbuffers only on demand. One module can store or output two full blue belts and has a capacity of 38400 items, enough for 8 minutes. There's an explanation here, but I have improved it since then: viewtopic.php?f=193&t=33056#p212468

[doxsroxs]

Running Bob's mods so these might not be applicable to you, but we are using central storage as a buffer so we do not have to chase down new ore patches all the time.
Using a central sorting system we setup new ore outposts and load everything mixed. We also use level 8 productivity modules in the miners for a 340% production bonus. (no GOD or RAW modules though)

Here is a picture describing parts of the process:


Here is an example of the multiprovider stations, all the combinators are neccessary since we are loading mixed ore. Normal stations only have one combinator for balanced loading/unloading:


The sorting facility and its temporary storage to prevent clogging if a single material is queued up on the outgoing station. This is serviced by robots.


And finally the central storage area where all the ores are stored, we have quite a lot of them due to the many ore types in Bob's mods.
These are basically two hacked together stations from siggboys system with some extra logic to ensure they always provide ore to everyone else and only pick up ore for storage if no one else needs it.
That ensures ore is sent straight from mining or sorting to the factories if possible to avoid uneccessary traffic.

Also note the central storage for barrels, canisters and gas bottles. These are there to ensure the system is always balanced.
New containers are automatically created up to a limit to ensure empty containers are always available to any station needing it.
Storage is vastly higher than that limit to ensure we do not clog the system if we remove a lot of stations. But to be honest, we are mostly expanding the system so it is mostly there as a fail safe.

Here is a radar image showing approximately half of the central storage, each section here can buffer just under 68 million ore:

[MeduSalem]

@doxsroxs: I somehow find the track layout extremely inefficient... especially the crossings are one of the most problematic things I have seen so far because they only allow for one train to pass at any given moment due to lack of signaling that divides the crossing into multiple sections. So a lot of trains will be waiting for another train to pass before being able to go through a crossing causing a lot of traffic jam in high demand scenarios. Also that a train if you have bad luck might want to go through ALL other stations due to the way the pathfinding would consider all the parallel tracks also viable routes... so there would probably be a lot of interference between trains because of that too if there are a lot of trains on the network.

But then again since you are using a customized siggboy's smart train implementation for trains on demand there might not be as many trains on route at any given point, I don't know... at least I have the strong feeling that the layout is not exactly at its peak efficiency.

I have worked out my own grid system for railway stuff to avoid above mentioned problems, which can be scaled pretty much endlessly. A concept picture I made a few months ago:

Factory Layout.png (50.68 KiB) Viewed 57943 times

The orange squares are the Roboports... they are basically placed at max distance from one another. 3x3 = 9 Roboports form what I call a "building square" (the area where you place your chests or assemblers etc). If you don't want the logistic networks of all these building squares to form one huge factory-wide logistic network you can obviously space them 2 tiles further apart, creating a gap between these building squares, effectively seperating the logistic networks of each building square from the ones next to it. That way the robots wouldn't be able to leave a building square and fly all over the base (though I don't really mind that, because after all I want them to be where they are most needed).

It's possible to place additional roboports in each building square if there is really high demand in that block for some reason (like is the case with Bot based smart furnaces etc). I found that to be necessary because otherwise there would be a lot of robots waiting to charge, reducing throughput.

Also since the train stations now are both vertically and horizontally of equal length you can have 2 trainstations on each side of a building square... a total of 8 trainstations per building square, though it would be pretty much overkill. In-game I actually use 2 stations for delivery, and on the other side 2 stations for export, just like shown in the picture above. If you are really into some monsterbase madness I even think it would be possible to have 4 train stations at each side of the square, given if you do some additional spacing between the building sqares to accomodate all that, making a total of 16 trainstations serving one of the building squares... but that's just ridiculous.

Quadruple track networks (with 2 tracks going in each direction) or more a possible too if you want them. In that case the most inner pair would serve far-distance traffic and the outer pair would serve the near-distance traffic, though never actually tested such a system because quite frankly... I don't need that throughput and my computer couldn't handle such big bases anyways.

Basically the trains are single-headed and have all a length of 4 wagons (it's what I found to be most convenient) and 2 locomotives (to boost acceleration speed, minimizing the amount of time the train needs to get out of the station so that a leaving train doesn't stall the main network for too long).

My crossings actually look like this ingame:

Crossing.jpg (166.88 KiB) Viewed 57949 times

[doxsroxs]

Trains are only dispatched when they have a full train load of 64k ore to pick up.
Traffic is minimal and congestion nonexistent so I get away with simple crossings.
The parallel tracks are no problem, they dont stack up, only use another track to go around any obstacle.

That said, you are of course correct, the track layout would never work if trains where used without the on demand system.

[hansinator]

Why do you buffer up so many ores instead of using them directly? The buffers I see here are very deep but they have limited throughput. It looks like it takes a lot of time to buffer/unbuffer when you could just have used the material directly and use the ore patches themselves as a free large-scale buffer.
Especially when using smart train deliveries I only see use for buffers that compensate for when there are more or fewer trains unloading in parallel. This buffers would need to be large enough that they can buffer up when a lot of trains are unloading at the same time and should have enough throughput to unload fast enough to keep the furnace line completely busy when there are fewer trains. If you have a lot of blue belts it still needs a lot of buffers but it is enough for the buffers to have a few chests per blue belt.
Maybe someone can explain to me the need for large and slow buffers with multiple chests each feeding the next in long rows?