[0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

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SkiCarver
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[0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by SkiCarver » Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:23 am

Hi,

I built up my own defences blueprints that I believe work well, and thought I would share. Any suggestions for improvements would be gratefully received!



There are different defences based on the tech available;

Base wall - belt ammo feed to turrets and double wall. The wall segments are joined by the alignment of the robotports, both in a straight line and on a corner. There are two versions of this blueprint, one with the belt going to the right, and one going to the left.
BaseWall.png
BaseWall.png (3.03 MiB) Viewed 375 times

Base Wall Corner
Basewallcorner.png
Basewallcorner.png (4.29 MiB) Viewed 375 times

One minor annoyance ... on the corner, there is one turret that does not feed from the belt and should therefore be removed.

Base Wall Straight
BaseWallStraight.png
BaseWallStraight.png (2.86 MiB) Viewed 375 times

Walls with laser-turret

The blueprint of the wall with the laser turrets can be placed over the base wall. This adds the laser turrets and dragons teeth. As the alignment is identical to the base wall the blueprint fits exactly along straight and corner areas.
BasePlusLaser.png
BasePlusLaser.png (2.61 MiB) Viewed 375 times

Logistics Bots

Once logistics bots are available the belt feed for the ammo can be removed and the laser turret wall blueprint re-applied - this places requestor chests for the ammo.

Required deconstruction planner
DeconstrucyionPlanner.png
DeconstrucyionPlanner.png (174.07 KiB) Viewed 375 times

Laser turret wall


The laser turret wall blueprint retains the normal (ammo) turrets .... for those occasion where you accidentally cut the power to your wall!!
laserwall.png
laserwall.png (2.88 MiB) Viewed 375 times

As stated, the laser wall nests like the base wall, align the robotports along the straight wall sections or the corners.
laserwallcorner.png
laserwallcorner.png (4.08 MiB) Viewed 375 times

For the areas that need more defending, you can place an extra row of lasers.
laserwalladdlasers.png
laserwalladdlasers.png (2.88 MiB) Viewed 375 times

As mentioned, any constructive feedback would be gratefully received.

I should add that I tend to play with a large starting area, train world, with a 5x multiplier on the science to extend the game time. I also use the nanobots mod, which obviously helps with the base wall turret placement.

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by slippycheeze » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 pm

If I may, I'd suggest a small number of improvements to your designs:

If you have two concrete walls with a gap between they will deliver the same amount of slowing down, but they will not be vulnerable to the "bite through" attack from the biggest bugs. That means it'll actually slow them more because you don't have some critters chewing on the inner wall early.

If you place your walls further back relative to the turrets they can still shoot everything, but you can push spitters back far enough they can't land a blob on the turret. This has the obvious advantage in repair costs.

In general, those bullet turret pods are better than the laser turret wall: once they get shot, bugs run toward the turret to attack. If you cluster your turrets you get equal amounts of death dealing potential with far fewer weapons, simply by drawing them away from a center point and toward one or the other pod. As long as you cover the entire wall well enough to hit them, you benefit from the critters behaviour.

Oh, and if you want, walls with a gap mean that bugs will run right into the gap to get at tasty turrets, etc, behind them. You can certainly exploit this foolishness on their part.

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by SkiCarver » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:18 am

slippycheeze wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 pm
...
Thanks for the reply, I will have a think on those points, particularly the double wall. I need to work out when I get the dragons teeth placed - is it before the big biters that would "bite-through".

As for the distance between the wall and the turrets, i was working on the idea that this was a balance between distance and the volume of turret fire you can bring down on the biters. there is something satisfying seeing multiple laser turrets firing at night! ... and I rarely lose turrets. That needs some study.

I guess what I was aiming for (pardon the pun) with the wall design, is that it is quick to place the blueprint (there is only one blueprint required at any given time stage) and there is no disruption to the defence as the walls are upgraded. The pure optimisation of defence was not the only priority.

As I say, I have some things to experiment with, thanks!! :)

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by slippycheeze » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:55 am

SkiCarver wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:18 am
slippycheeze wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 pm
...
Thanks for the reply, I will have a think on those points, particularly the double wall. I need to work out when I get the dragons teeth placed - is it before the big biters that would "bite-through".
Up to you, but basically the biggest biters have an attack range of two tiles, so a two-tile-wide wall they get to chomping on the inner side first. If you have a one tile wide wall and then a line of turrets, they get to chomping on the turrets, which I think is probably why they work like that.

Dragon teeth slow down biters getting to the wall, but they don't change much about what happens if they get there.

I agree with your comments, and honestly, this wall will be just fine ... basically forever, unless you run something that puts bigger nastier versions of the biters in, and you hit 1.0 evolution. (or, y'know, as close as you get.)

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by SkiCarver » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:15 am

slippycheeze wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:55 am
SkiCarver wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:18 am
slippycheeze wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:37 pm
...
Thanks for the reply, I will have a think on those points, particularly the double wall. I need to work out when I get the dragons teeth placed - is it before the big biters that would "bite-through".
Up to you, but basically the biggest biters have an attack range of two tiles, so a two-tile-wide wall they get to chomping on the inner side first. If you have a one tile wide wall and then a line of turrets, they get to chomping on the turrets, which I think is probably why they work like that.

Dragon teeth slow down biters getting to the wall, but they don't change much about what happens if they get there.

I agree with your comments, and honestly, this wall will be just fine ... basically forever, unless you run something that puts bigger nastier versions of the biters in, and you hit 1.0 evolution. (or, y'know, as close as you get.)
Thanks. Ive not had any particular issues with the wall and it is convenient to build and update, but there is always room for improvement and any suggestions are appreciated.

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by mmmPI » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:33 pm

I like that it's a "low-tech" wall that evolve, with the spacing built-in. In my mind you don't build the late game wall at the same spot as early game wall. So why an evolving wall ? I thought seeing the BP well that still let you place the low tech when you want, the middle tech or the late version, with only 1 book and upgrade any segment you won't remove.I like how the corner are delt with, without a special corner BP.

For suggestion, I would look for train supply. Maybe not include a station to every segment, but if you had in the same book a version of the wall with a straight rail so that they align on the grid, you could also have a blueprint of the station that unloads ammo and repair pack and walls turrets ect and plop it down to replace the straight rails on 1/10 of the wall or 1 in every segment . In case you are on a railworld you might not have the robotport range to bring supply everywhere. This would require a slice of the wall to be added at some places to cut the roboport coverage in segment.

In this case you may want to make a loading station BP too with filters that correspond to what the wall need.

But that's going away from a defense blueprint.( maybe you have unload stations blueprint for outpost that already include the unloading of the material).


To stay on the topic, you dislike flameturrets :D ? They could be made friendlier for robots if you use barrels to bring in the fuel but then you need a way to get rid of the empty barrels ( which could be robots too) I understand that's one thing that would travel BACK from the wall contrary to all others that only goes TO the wall. But in the case of an distant outpost, you have stuff coming back anyway.

Another thing you may want to fiddle with, is a way to spread the ammunition on the belt, if you keep the belt stage long enough. If your belt dead end it doesn't matter as ammo will back up. But if you have a defended square, or squarish outpost you may have your belt doing a loop. In this case with a few wiring on the belts you could have one that enable disable at a frequency. This would decrease the throughput of ammo ofc, but allow you to "waste" less ressources on the belts, since you can keep them 1/10 full, or 1/4 full , or 1/2 full and adjust with the fequency of the enabled/disabled belt.

Also I always thought it was defenSe an not defenCe, I learned a weird thing today :)

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by SkiCarver » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:13 pm

mmmPI wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:33 pm

.....

Also I always thought it was defenSe an not defenCe, I learned a weird thing today :)
uk english ... defence
us english ... defense

There are time when i get the wrong one, but I am allowed as I am dyslexic! ;-)

Re. later walls in different places .... yes, but I have the choice to easily upgrade existing or place the late game wall in a new spot.

re. flame turrets ... you are correct that the barrel logistics is why i do not use them, despite the advantages ... the wall, as is, is sufficient, even if I lose a few dragons teeth from time to time. maybe i will take another look at them at some point .... perhaps have half the belt feeding barrels and storing the empties until logistics tech is available to collect them ...

My outpost build station is not part of my defence/defense blueprint book as it is not dedicated to defence only. ... maybe that is something else i could consider, but as i usually build a wall just past ore patches, also including everything required for a mining outposts seems sensible.

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by mmmPI » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:31 pm

I am used to read it "défense", now there's no wrong one when you speak your own langage i guess it's up to the reader, to read , i would say :D
SkiCarver wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:13 pm
My outpost build station is not part of my defence/defense blueprint book as it is not dedicated to defence only. ... maybe that is something else i could consider, but as i usually build a wall just past ore patches, also including everything required for a mining outposts seems sensible.
I usually try to get atleast a few chokepoints on my map generating water, i usually wall those off, kill all biters and mine ore inside, and then get a new expansion when i can plan a new wall off that include a good amount of ressources . So my walls are usually in the middle of nowhere between lakes and cliffs far from ressources. That's where my suggestion is from .

A way to deal with the logistic of ammo for flameturrets before robots is also to use trains with a fluidwagon, easier to add if you include the train in your defense.

Or just pipes along the belt, and a tank of oil near where you unload ammo.

Not that it's needed on open maps , but on chokepoint you can't concentrate your turrets the same way, and it's where a few flame would shine since ennemies are very dense attacking the same exact spot very often.

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by SkiCarver » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:23 pm

so..... updated to include flame-turrets.



The walls nest on straights and corners as before.

For update from base wall to laser wall;

The required deconstruction planner should include iron chests.
Upgrade the steel chests to passive providers.

The intention is for the belt to have half turret ammo and half oil barrels.

Base Wall
flame1.png
flame1.png (2.79 MiB) Viewed 255 times

Laser Wall
flame2.png
flame2.png (3.21 MiB) Viewed 255 times

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by SkiCarver » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:34 am

Update - Replaced Requestor chests supplying turrets with buffer chests


Wall.png
Wall.png (2.1 MiB) Viewed 161 times
The buffer chests at the turrets are set to request 200 red ammo and 200 green ammo. When combined with the train setup I am using to supply ammo, it means that, when green ammo is available, the red ammo will be recycled back to the base so the turrets will pick up the green ammo.

Unload at wall station;
This setup will only unload red ammo from the train if the green ammo chest content reaches a certain limit (say 200).
The red ammo 'unload from train' filter inserter will enable if the green ammo chest is less than the minimum 200 units.
The red ammo 'load on to train' inserter will enable if the green ammo chest has plenty of green ammo (again, lets say 200).
This serves to ensure that there will always be ammo for the turrets, but when green ammo has populated the wall buffer chests and is therefor left in the unloading chest, the red ammo will be loaded back on to the train.


At the main base loading station, the logic will remove red ammo from the train car if there is a minimum of green ammo. this allows the red ammo to be collected from the wall outposts and recycled.
loadunload.png
loadunload.png (2.78 MiB) Viewed 161 times

Any thoughts or concerns?

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by slippycheeze » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:30 pm

SkiCarver wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:34 am
Update - Replaced Requestor chests supplying turrets with buffer chests

The buffer chests at the turrets are set to request 200 red ammo and 200 green ammo. When combined with the train setup I am using to supply ammo, it means that, when green ammo is available, the red ammo will be recycled back to the base so the turrets will pick up the green ammo.

Any thoughts or concerns?
Remember too, a requester chest takes items out of the logistic network, a buffer chest keeps them inside it, but restricts who can use them. The difference is relevant if you, eg, want to use a logistic network connection to enable/disable inserters, or read the supply levels from a roboport, or whatever. I sometimes choose buffers over requesters for exactly that reason.

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Re: [0.17] My Defences Bluesprints

Post by SkiCarver » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:01 pm

slippycheeze wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:30 pm
SkiCarver wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:34 am
Update - Replaced Requestor chests supplying turrets with buffer chests

The buffer chests at the turrets are set to request 200 red ammo and 200 green ammo. When combined with the train setup I am using to supply ammo, it means that, when green ammo is available, the red ammo will be recycled back to the base so the turrets will pick up the green ammo.

Any thoughts or concerns?
Remember too, a requester chest takes items out of the logistic network, a buffer chest keeps them inside it, but restricts who can use them. The difference is relevant if you, eg, want to use a logistic network connection to enable/disable inserters, or read the supply levels from a roboport, or whatever. I sometimes choose buffers over requesters for exactly that reason.
Indeed. It seems to work well, once i sorted the train loading/unloading rules to recycle the red ammo.

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