Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Power Plants, Energy Storage and Reliable Energy Supply. All about efficient energy production. Turning parts of your factory off. Reliable and self-repairing energy.
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ssilk
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Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by ssilk » Tue May 20, 2014 1:38 am

I had the problem, that I need sometimes much more energy, than normal. Much more. Incredibly more. Now I could create a gigantic steam-engine park, which turns on only, if my accus are empty ( https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... ailable.3F ) ... but all the wiring. And I need an gigantig overhead: Many boilers, many inserters. I didn't like that.

But we have now the tanks and pumps... do you know, that the pump works only, if it is powered? If the pump is off, nothing flows through it. Nice. ^^ So I thought: What, if I build my steam-engine-park so, that I store some hot water and turn the power for the pumps, when needed. How could I switch the pumps on/off? Another steam engine, which only powers the pumps and is turned on/off with the above trick. I can explain more, but just some pics:

Overview: Right top are the offshore-pumps. They fill cold water into some "pre-tanks". From here the water is pumped through the boilers into the next big tank. Then pumped to the left into the big central storage. The water is here alway 100 degrees. In the center are the pumps, which are switches on/off. Above is the control for that pumps, more below. The water is then pumped into the steam engines.
PowerBuffer1.jpg
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Details: A steam engine is powered, when the green inserters fill the boilers, which rotate, when the accu is empty... when the steam engine runs, it powers the pumps. You see here 3 different electric networks: the pole to the left near the accu. The main-network, which comes from below and the pump-network, which goes from top to the pumps. The other steam engines on top are only used to empty the hot water for the control-power as fast as possible (and give a bit extra power).
PowerBuffer2.jpg
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This is, when the whole thing automatically turns on:
PowerBuffer3.jpg
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Re: Energy Peak

Post by ssilk » Tue May 20, 2014 1:41 am

A, forgot: the power indication: It gives me about 40 Megawatt extra energy, which is enough to come through the night.
PowerBuffer4.jpg
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And the save:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxC7zF ... sp=sharing

For the whole directory (all from one world):
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... sp=sharing
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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by SilverWarior » Tue May 20, 2014 8:59 am

Wait can you actually store heated water in the tanks?

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by rk84 » Tue May 20, 2014 9:44 am

@ssilk Awesome system. But is 68 steam engines too much for 12 pumps? 5 steam engines per pump is max I think.
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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by Teurlinx » Tue May 20, 2014 10:23 am

Nice, but it's a bit lost on me. If you'd stick the furnaces full with -40% energy modules you'd save about 45 MW on that 51 MW :geek:

500 accumulators would also do the job of supplying 40 MW. I've ran a hybrid system for a long while and it has its appeals, but solar energy is just so good that it's hard to not use if for everything.

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by FishSandwich » Tue May 20, 2014 10:44 am

This is awesome. I didn't know you could store hot water, thanks for the mechanic. :D

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by Ric » Tue May 20, 2014 11:04 am

Pretty cool system you have there.

Not had the need for this much surge power myself as yet but it's definitely something to think about for the future.

We may even get more circuitry/logistics options in the future or the option to auto-switch on & off and night/day time. That would be a nice addition imo :)
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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by ssilk » Tue May 20, 2014 11:50 am

rk84 wrote:@ssilk Awesome system. But is 68 steam engines too much for 12 pumps? 5 steam engines per pump is max I think.
Well, I see that as proof of concept. Of course many things are not well designed, but I have to redo this many times, to make it work as it is now. And yes, it currently cannot power all steam engines fully.

The next time I would build it much more modular and much bigger.

The furnaces are overpowered with the modules, because to test this. :) and it might be somewhat useful strategy, if you really have to hurry to produce one very special thing in the shortest time possible. I think that could be a good part of the game: pre-producing thing, store it and if it is needed bringing it at the fastest possible time to the target.

@teurlinx: 500 accumulators take "a bit" more space and need significant more resources to produce than this. But I admit it is more complicated to build. That simple thing took me about 4 hours.
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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by Neotix » Tue May 20, 2014 2:12 pm

I am curious if it is possible to store water from the output of the turbines. It is known that the output water temperature is not constant and depends on the turbines load. Does water of different temperature can be stored in the tank to be averaged inside? Has anyone tried this?

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by BurnHard » Tue May 20, 2014 2:59 pm

Neotix wrote:I am curious if it is possible to store water from the output of the turbines. It is known that the output water temperature is not constant and depends on the turbines load. Does water of different temperature can be stored in the tank to be averaged inside? Has anyone tried this?
Output of turbines? The water used by steam engines for energy productiun is used up completely. They just can let some hot water through to the next engine, but the water is not cooled down or anything. Hot water -> Energy + no water at all ^^

In my eyes, the thing with hot water tanks and reserve engines thats just for the fun of it. Building accus in the same space would be easier and provide more energy, even for longer lasting "peaks"

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by sillyfly » Tue May 20, 2014 3:46 pm

ssilk wrote:But we have now the tanks and pumps... do you know, that the pump works only, if it is powered? If the pump is off, nothing flows through it. Nice. ^^
Really? From the wiki I assumed when it is not powered it acts like a one-way valve, not completely blocking.

Anyway - nice trick :) I do prefer just having massive arrays of accumulators, though :P

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by BurnHard » Tue May 20, 2014 3:50 pm

sillyfly wrote:
ssilk wrote:But we have now the tanks and pumps... do you know, that the pump works only, if it is powered? If the pump is off, nothing flows through it. Nice. ^^
Really? From the wiki I assumed when it is not powered it acts like a one-way valve, not completely blocking. Anyway - nice trick :) I do prefer just having massive arrays of accumulators, though :P
Pumps (not the offshore pump) are more or less useless at the moment. As you say, if you need - for whatever reason - a one way valve, then place a pump. As long as your storage tanks and pipes are not unter 0.1% (very, very low) capacity, the fluids will flow with sufficient speed to the places where they are needed.

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by sillyfly » Tue May 20, 2014 3:53 pm

Evidently they are useful for what ssilk just described :)

Another use is to allow oil processing only of overflow. Say you want to always have 2 tanks filled with light oil, and only crack the remaining into petroleum - place a pump between the refinery output and the tanks, and connect the cracking facility _before_ the pump. This way the pump will take up light oil until the tanks are full, and not divide it into your cracking facility too soon.

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by l2032 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 1:39 pm

sillyfly wrote:Another use is to allow oil processing only of overflow. Say you want to always have 2 tanks filled with light oil, and only crack the remaining into petroleum - place a pump between the refinery output and the tanks, and connect the cracking facility _before_ the pump. This way the pump will take up light oil until the tanks are full, and not divide it into your cracking facility too soon.
I love that! I always run into issues where my oil refineries aren't quite balanced and I end up being starved for one or the other... Thanks for a brilliant idea :D

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Re: Handling Gigantic Energy Peaks

Post by Glooze » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:52 pm

What's up with the 8.1k laser turrets tho xD. and indeed efficiency modules are your friends when it comes to furnaces and everything oil related.

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