[Lou] [1.1.1] Power Pole connections saved in Blueprints are working persistently

[AntiElitz]

I recently noticed that power pole connections where quite often missing randomly when using blueprints. I was able to figure out this is due to the new blueprint system saving the pole connections in the blueprint.
See here: https://youtu.be/EB98oSPDCHA

This behavior feels absolutely unnatural and is very frustrating when it results in areas not being powered, especially since the bots will build the blueprint with a delay and the player doesn't get instant feedback on stuff not being powered. This is absolutely inferior to the prior behavior where you couldn't control the connections exactly, but it's result was always working.

[ardoRic]

I also hit this issue a couple of times, it is indeed not ideal to drop a blueprint that "should" work and then it doesn't.

I understand the rationale behind the power pole connection saving feature, but the end result working if it has enough power poles to work should take precedence.

I wouldn't be so drastic as to call for reverting the feature, but it seems to be a niche use-case which could be an option while making the blueprints instead of the default.

[thuejk]

One way to "fix" the power pole blueprinting would be to have a checkbox when creating it, saying "save power wire layout". Default off. Like the "include trains" checkbox.

[AntiElitz]

*moved from 'ideas and suggestions' to 'Bug Reports' by developer recommendation*

[ptx0]

while it's a problem that the blueprinted poles don't try and auto connect, i don't agree with your approach to tell them to roll it back and get rid of the feature. maybe don't do your speedruns on v1.1 yet?

[AntiElitz]

while it's a problem that the blueprinted poles don't try and auto connect, i don't agree with your approach to tell them to roll it back and get rid of the feature. maybe don't do your speedruns on v1.1 yet?

I like thue's solution actually.

edit: Also this problem has literally nothing to do with speedrunning? I don't get why you bring this up.

[ickputzdirwech]

One way to "fix" the power pole blueprinting would be to have a checkbox when creating it, saying "save power wire layout". Default off. Like the "include trains" checkbox.

I would prefer the default being "on" but it would be disabled for copy/paste.

[kovarex]

I didn't encounter this even once during our playthgouh, and I was copy pasting a lot. It might be because I'm quite focused on not overbuilding poles, so the setup is nicely aligned when I start making copies. The only real solution to this would be to have an interface option to not remember connection in blueprints which would not save it in the blueprint, and mark the blueprint with a flag that it should autoconnect.

[AntiElitz]

I would appreciate this solution. However the default should be to not save the wires and auto-connect instead as in previos versions. Otherwise, copy paste ist fairly useless because you would always have to open the interface and activate the option just in case this incident happens. While wanting to save the wire connections is something you can actively plan, non connecting poles is something that will not be foreseen. That would be practically removing quick copy from the game.
I'm actually surprised you didn't encounter this problem. The reason I was looking deeper into it was that several people reported poles not connecting "randomly" on our discord. So I think it happens fairly often, but people don't notice it's not their own fault.

[ptx0]

I didn't encounter this even once during our playthgouh, and I was copy pasting a lot. It might be because I'm quite focused on not overbuilding poles, so the setup is nicely aligned when I start making copies. The only real solution to this would be to have an interface option to not remember connection in blueprints which would not save it in the blueprint, and mark the blueprint with a flag that it should autoconnect.

you could mark specific poles for autoconnect - or to do the other way and make default to not save, and mark specific poles for preservation?

[bartmill]

I didn't encounter this even once during our playthgouh, and I was copy pasting a lot. It might be because I'm quite focused on not overbuilding poles, so the setup is nicely aligned when I start making copies. The only real solution to this would be to have an interface option to not remember connection in blueprints which would not save it in the blueprint, and mark the blueprint with a flag that it should autoconnect.

Could it be related to 'old' blueprints. And when I mean 'old', I mean blueprints that were placed when using the 1.0 version, then loading the save into 1.1 and then building it.

Because that's the scenario that I had with missing powerpoles..

[seky16]

However the default should be to not save the wires and auto-connect instead as in previos versions. Otherwise, copy paste ist fairly useless because you would always have to open the interface and activate the option just in case this incident happens. While wanting to save the wire connections is something you can actively plan, non connecting poles is something that will not be foreseen.

+1

[Squelch]

I made a suggestion a while back along these lines.

Allow disabling of power pole auto-connect in clipboard and blueprints

In fact, the new changes just about satisfy all aspects of that, and the older requests except for the meta key control or control while saving BPs.

A revert is drastic. Some refinement is all that's needed.

[thuejk]

Another example of why remembered power connections should not be default, from Nefrums' speedrun yesterday: https://clips.twitch.tv/HedonisticCuriousSardineKappa

Blueprinting something, and then dragging power through it along the blueprinted power poles, seems like a reasonable use case to me. But that breaks in unintuitive ways as seen in the video, if the power connections are remembered.

[cliff_build]

I can brainstorm two possible solution shapes:
One might be that, when generating a blueprint, detect if the source had all powerpoles in the same power network, and yet the generated blueprint has multiple networks, try and add connections to the generated blueprint that connect to the same network.

Another might be that when generating blueprints, any powerpole that has connections to "outside of the copied area" would not have its connections saved, and would instead add connections when that blueprint was placed (or, perhaps, would try and add connections to the existing blueprint as part of blueprint creation).

Anyhow, just some brainstormed ideas, feel free to ignore.

[NotRexButCaesar]

I disagree that this is a bug. It makes sense to me that it should work the way it does. If you want power connected for the top chemical plants, copy the pole connecting them too.

[kovarex]

I just changed the title, as there was nothing random about it.

[AntiElitz]

Related:

Video: https://youtu.be/0DiZNgVvJUw

TLTR: Fast replacing an power pole with another entity will fuck up connections, too. This is quite obvious, but still not nice.

[pichutarius]

Related:

Video: https://youtu.be/0DiZNgVvJUw

TLTR: Fast replacing an power pole with another entity will fuck up connections, too. This is quite obvious, but still not nice.

i did a test, its actually not the problem of bp, but the ghost does not auto update wire connection like real poles.

try these steps:
1. use right click and create 3 ghost power poles in adjacent. they are connected. (A--B--C)
2. remove middle ghost (B) by right click it. the rest (A,C) are not connected even if they are within reach.
3. use left click to build them (A,C). still not connected.

if we build them without ghost, then remove the middle (B), the rest (A,C) will be connected.

so it might be intended or unintended, if former case then this is a feature request, else its a bug.

[Lou]

Hello,

First of all, thanks for bringing this issue to our attention as well as suggesting solutions. Changes to the ElectricPole system introduced in 1.1.7 should alleviate most of the concerns mentioned. Specifically:

1) When creating a blueprint containing electric poles, pole pairs satisfying the following will be autmatically connected:
- are in wire reach
- have common neighbour (a pole they are both connected to) outside the blueprint
- do not have common neighbour inside the blueprint
this should prevent accidental electric network disconnections while keep intentional disconnections

2) As far as automatic electric connections between poles are considered, as of 1.1.7 ghost poles should behave pretty much as real poles. The described "fast replace" - destroying ghost by placing different entity over it - will trigger automatic reconnection between its neighbours (if in reach) very much like real poles would.