holding z should continually drop items

[Slayn25]

title^

[silverkitty23]

seconded

[bobingabout]

It's come up before. I can't disagree with the idea. I mean, left click and drag constantly places entities, it could be compared to this.

[TheDagmaar]

Why not?

[Sean Mirrsen]

For lack of any ingame mechanic to do so, you could probably rig up an AutoHotKey script to turbo-press Z for you when you hold it down.

[bobingabout]

For lack of any ingame mechanic to do so, you could probably rig up an AutoHotKey script to turbo-press Z for you when you hold it down.

That's the sort of thing a friend of mine would do

[Nova]

Simple and easy idea - are there any disadvantages?

[Sean Mirrsen]

Simple and easy idea - are there any disadvantages?

Not many I can think of, functionally. But it would basically have to work like the repeat input of a text editor - press and hold, it goes once, waits a little, then starts repeating - otherwise you'll need precisely timed taps to drop single items. Also the speed at which it drops things would need to be tunable, perhaps in settings - it can't just drop "as fast as it can", because it can drop things pretty much instantly - they'll just flood out to an area.

[golfmiketango]

Simple and easy idea - are there any disadvantages?

Not many I can think of, functionally. But it would basically have to work like the repeat input of a text editor - press and hold, it goes once, waits a little, then starts repeating - otherwise you'll need precisely timed taps to drop single items. Also the speed at which it drops things would need to be tunable, perhaps in settings - it can't just drop "as fast as it can", because it can drop things pretty much instantly - they'll just flood out to an area.

+1.

Come to think of it, the same argument could be made for grabbing a number of items by holding "f".

I'd even like it if we could continuously -- but not too quickly -- rotate train tracks with "r". When placing curved rail, I'm always trying to press "R" as quickly as possible -- as if I were playing Konami Track & Field -- and therefore often "miss" my desired orientation the first time around, resulting in the need to press "r" as many as 15 times in a row (seven to get to my desired orientation, one to miss and go back where I started, and then seven more to get it right). This seems to come up quite commonly, due to the existing and desired orientations being one just one rotation apart, but in the seven-keypress direction, almost 50% of the time. Maybe that will become a non-issue in 0.13?

[Slayn25]

Maybe that will become a non-issue in 0.13?

It will. https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-113

+1 towards continually pick up when f is held

[daniel34]

Come to think of it, the same argument could be made for grabbing a number of items by holding "f".

+1 towards continually pick up when f is held

This is the case already.
The difference is that Z will put the item down where your cursor is (but only once), F will pick up all the items next to the character (as long as it's being pressed).

[Zeblote]

Why doesn't f pick up items around the cursor for consistency?

[Slayn25]

Come to think of it, the same argument could be made for grabbing a number of items by holding "f".

+1 towards continually pick up when f is held

This is the case already.
The difference is that Z will put the item down where your cursor is (but only once), F will pick up all the items next to the character (as long as it's being pressed).

Oh yeah... -1 towards implementing a feature that is already implemented.

[ssilk]

I ask me: When did I use Z the last time? That must be months ago.

I think this is not needed. I use a chest and an inserter for this task, this is also nearly equally fast.

[bobingabout]

I ask me: When did I use Z the last time? That must be months ago.

I think this is not needed. I use a chest and an inserter for this task, this is also nearly equally fast.

With that attitude, the question becomes why is the Z to drop feature even in the game at all?

I personally never used it, because I didn't know it was there, but since learning about it, I actually make extensive use of it.

One of the uses for example is when I'm outside of the logistic zone of my base (it stops at the wall, so if you're outside, you're out of the zone), and I just happen to pick up a few artifacts, keep in mind I run my mods with bubblegum from biters. I'll walk up to my biter trap, and drop the bubblegum in it to take it into my base.

chest? Well, there's no power outside of the base, I can't power an inserter!

Just one example, and it is annoying that I have to rapidly mash Z.

[Sean Mirrsen]

If it wasn't that you place things with left-click, and various modifiers used for many other things, I would much prefer if the "drop item" function were located somewhere on the left mouse button as well. I use it extensively for disposing of stacks of materials I accidentally acquire when rearranging active factory conveyorbelts. I really rather dislike leaving random containers and inserters around, it's much quicker to dump the whole stack onto the belt manually.

[golfmiketango]

Come to think of it, the same argument could be made for grabbing a number of items by holding "f".

+1 towards continually pick up when f is held

This is the case already.
The difference is that Z will put the item down where your cursor is (but only once), F will pick up all the items next to the character (as long as it's being pressed).

Well I'll be damned. Apparently I just assumed it wouldn't all this time.

Hmm, actually, no. Come to think of it, I'm just stupid/crazy. I have already internalized this -- i.e., I have many times stood at the end of a belt full of "oopsie" and hoovered it all up with one long keypress... I guess I just forgot and derped up the assumption they would be symmetric. Sometimes I turn my head the wrong way, and half-formed notions spill of my mouth before I can stop them, sorry -- or more likely I was so proud of myself for remembering the name of Konami Track & Field that I forgot to ask myself if the rest of my post had any validity/sense

[golfmiketango]

I ask me: When did I use Z the last time? That must be months ago.

I think this is not needed. I use a chest and an inserter for this task, this is also nearly equally fast.

But can a chest and an inserter do

this

? I think not*!

...

*Admittedly, technically, yes, they can.

[ssilk]

If it wasn't that you place things with left-click, and various modifiers used for many other things, I would much prefer if the "drop item" function were located somewhere on the left mouse button as well. I use it extensively for disposing of stacks of materials I accidentally acquire when rearranging active factory conveyorbelts. I really rather dislike leaving random containers and inserters around, it's much quicker to dump the whole stack onto the belt manually.

Well, that is your view ad in my eyes not effective.
Think about this: The time you need to put the items on the belts summarizes with the number of items you put on the belts.

If I compare that with my method (chest + inserter) pure math shows me, that my method scales over time, cause I just need to put the unneeded items into it, when I run nearby.

With logistic robots I change that chests just to provider chests and then I can put my unwanted items into the trash slots.


OH, I forgot, there is also another method, that I prefer before using Z: I search an assembly or furnace, that needs my unwanted item and put it directly into the right stacks. I think this is - especially in early game - the most effective way


What I see here is a feature, that is well-intended, but newbies will never search/learn other methods to drop items then.

And the summary for me - after re-reading the whole thread - is, that the Z-key is a misconception. And to go even further: In my eyes the whole theme of "take", "put", "give", "drop" needs to be reworked, cause it has several flaws, not only the Z-key!

[Sean Mirrsen]

If it wasn't that you place things with left-click, and various modifiers used for many other things, I would much prefer if the "drop item" function were located somewhere on the left mouse button as well. I use it extensively for disposing of stacks of materials I accidentally acquire when rearranging active factory conveyorbelts. I really rather dislike leaving random containers and inserters around, it's much quicker to dump the whole stack onto the belt manually.

Well, that is your view ad in my eyes not effective.
Think about this: The time you need to put the items on the belts summarizes with the number of items you put on the belts.

If I compare that with my method (chest + inserter) pure math shows me, that my method scales over time, cause I just need to put the unneeded items into it, when I run nearby.

With logistic robots I change that chests just to provider chests and then I can put my unwanted items into the trash slots.


OH, I forgot, there is also another method, that I prefer before using Z: I search an assembly or furnace, that needs my unwanted item and put it directly into the right stacks. I think this is - especially in early game - the most effective way


What I see here is a feature, that is well-intended, but newbies will never search/learn other methods to drop items then.

And the summary for me - after re-reading the whole thread - is, that the Z-key is a misconception. And to go even further: In my eyes the whole theme of "take", "put", "give", "drop" needs to be reworked, cause it has several flaws, not only the Z-key!

There is, honestly, a million and one uses for the "drop item here" mechanic. I would have been frustrated to all heck and beyond if I had to put down a chest and an inserter to keep testing my rapid-prototyped belt-fed factories every time I change some things in how they work, on top of having to build up the test setup from the start (I haven't quite mastered the concept of migration scripts yet). I can manually put items on either side of a belt in a splitter or balancer setup and see which goes where in a controlled manner. If there is ever an event rigged to correspond to the player dropping an item, it could probably lead to any number of interesting new modding functions, simplest of which would be integrating the item-drop function with the item-insert function, so you could single-drop items into containers or factories.

If item decay is ever a thing, as well, then it could be a simple way to dispose of unwanted components, without having to store them in a chest. Just literally toss them away. Perhaps into the water.

If item-on-ground is an entity with a force assigned, biters could react to it and attempt to seek it out and eat it, allowing you to drop "biter bait" to draw their attention or delay them as they chase you.

edit: also, is there an unused modifier for left-click? Maybe Alt? Can the game use Alt-Leftclick as a control binding? Because that'd be much handier to use than Z.