Stock Better Vehicle Control

[Agent654]

First off - let me say that I recently picked the game up through Steam when I saw the gameplay trailer on Reddit. Since then, I've already dumped WAAAY too many hours into this with friends and the experience has been fantastic.

Second, I realize there is a MOD available (in varying forms of functionality) to assist with Vehicle Control - but since this is my first post in the forums I'm unable to link to it.

I'm posting this topic, to humbly request that the devs seriously consider either changing or adding a control scheme option for vehicles that better aligns with the default movement of your character. For example, the car/buggy - controlling it like R/C Pro AM makes for an enormous practice in frustration when 90% of the time my control scheme is set up so that if I press "W" my character moves "up".

I'm offering a suggestion as another user configurable/toggle option - while using the car, perhaps if I press "W" the car turns and accelerates towards "Up" - rather than me needing to tap W to get it to start moving forward and then do some kind of interpolation of A/D in order to turn the vehicle where I need it to go. This is insanely frustrating to use, and really kind of puts a damper on the enjoyment as it takes a bit to manufacture the car, only to end up slamming it into random objects (Trees, power poles, etc).

This is just my opinion, but at least in the circle of folks who have been playing this - I've heard it repeated that this is the more frustrating part of playing the game. Given the nature of the perspective of the game and the current control scheme, I find it hard to believe that this is an isolated opinion.

Past this though - every other aspect of the game is fantastic, and we're really having a blast getting used to the whole thing.

Keep up the fantastic work devs!

-Agent654

[Zeblote]

I like this idea

Especially with lag in multiplayer the vehicles are insanely hard to control. However this does limit you to 8 possible movement directions.

[Agent654]

I think not having the frustration would overcome the limitation of movement... personally.

[Koub]

I'd like better vehicle controlling, but I fear it would restrict the direction you'd be able to drive to just 8 (N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW). The advantage of current controls is that you can steer and go whatever direction you want ... well once you've spent some time bumping everywhere

[Zeblote]

However, if you have only 8 directions to drive it also becomes a lot less frustrating to stay on straight roads through your factory.

[Hexicube]

I actually like the vehicle controls as they are, limiting to axis and diagonals would actually be annoying to use IMO.

[ssilk]

I must say, that learning managing to drive the car/tank is part of the game in my opinion. And it is a lot of fun.
What's missing is the fine tuning if you want to drive in one of the 8 directions. And that nobody likes to drive through forest or long and boring stuff. Therefore I think some kind of automatic driver should be useful.

I made a frequently suggested article:
viewtopic.php?f=80&t=21022 Better Vehicle Control

[Agent654]

I sincerely appreciate the input by everyone - it's always enlightening to hear other perspectives on something like this for sure.

To clarify - I'm not asking for a replacement of the existing control paradigm as people have already mentioned they like it. What would be nice is to see this as a kind of option that I'm free to switch control mechanisms for vehicles.

If there's a way to poll this, I think it'd be a nice way to gather some quantifiable data on the topic too.

[ssilk]

Hm. It's maybe an option if the problems can be solved, that are coming with this.

One problem for example: Assumed you are driving with the car into right direction. East direction. You press "D".
Now you press "A". What happens then? In which direction should the car turn now? Always left? South before driving west?

How useful is that turn? Depending on the current speed the car will make different turn-radius! You need to brake before, if you want to make a really small circle.

Or shouldn't pressing A not mean to brake instead? If not: Where is my brake?

[Zeblote]

If not: Where is my brake?

Not pressing any key = brake.

I would say going in the opposite direction simply does nothing, you first have to go north or south to indicate which way you want to turn.

[ssilk]

Not pressing any key = brake..

How do you roll then? How slowing turning a sharp edge? Not needed? Why?

I won't point my finger into the wounds, but I think this is suggestion is not ready yet.

[Agent654]

Sorry - this suggestion is more to get the conversation going towards serious consideration.

Here's an idea for how this could work. Instead of using A & D as the means of "turning the wheel" and using W & S as the accelerator and brake, why not treat a pressed key as a TURN TOWARD/Accelerate event. Using something else, like the Spacebar as a means for applying brakes.

As an example, let's say we have the following scenario:

= My car is pointing North =

• - I get in, and wish to turn East - so I press "D" - the vehicle should both accelerate a bit, but should prioritize turning to the East (making the tightest turn) - if I continue to hold "D" the vehicle should continue to accelerate in an Eastward direction, until the turn is "complete" to face East.
  - Now I press W - the vehicle should begin turning North - if I quickly release the key, this just results in a slight change of course - but if I press W and D - the vehicle would tend to the North East direction (8 cardinals) - but through tapping of other keys, I'm able to "nuance" the vehicle into small openings / gaps.
  • - If I were to instead press *the exact opposite direction I'm heading* - the vehicle would effectively apply brakes, this seems intuitive as a direct counter to the direction I indicate I wish to go
    - This would likely work, as players would likely nuance the turning of the car through use of other keys
  I feel like a workable solution is out there - and to those who like the current stock Vehicle Control Scheme, enjoy it! Both that scheme and the resulting proposed adjustment could live side-by-side as a player preference.
  
  Just my thoughts!

[Mooncat]

Hi everyone. Hope I am not too late on this topic. Among all of the frequently suggested articles about vehicle control, this one is my favourite and I have thought about it since the day when I entered the vehicle in mission, even before using the forums. I am always having problems on turning the vehicle when not moving towards north. Maybe my brain is too slow on these things.

Here is my explanation about this suggestion: think of the current control for character, but with the addition of the needs to turn and accelerate/decelerate. W = North, A = West, S = South, D = East, and they are independent from your current orientation. And about the opposite direction problem, let's not forget that the vehicles can actually move backwards!
So, here is the resulting pseudocode:

Code: Select all

if (a key is pressed)
{
    if (key is not the exact opposite direction to the current vehicle orientation)
        start accelerating and turning towards the key's direction;
    else
    {
        if (vehicle is moving)
            start braking;
        else // vehicle is still
            start accelerating backwards according to the key's direction;
    }
}
else
{
    if (vehicle is moving)
        decelerate slowly;
}

And when we are talking about "vehicle", I hope Train is also included. 99% of the time when I want to switch lane while moving a train backwards I do it wrong. This can cause disasters if there are other moving trains. Of course, adjustment to the above pseudocode is needed when implemented for the trains, but I think you get the idea. If this suggestion is implemented, vehicle control will be way more brain-friendly.

As Agent654 suggested, the existing vehicle control can still exist, while an option for switching to the new control can be added in the Options page so all people will be happy.

[ssilk]

Sorry, when I'm intervening and with all respect, but I think it is not possible to control that like so, cause most (>90%) of the players are not able to control the keys of a keyboard like so. I've been grown with games on C64 and Amiga etc. On C64/Amiga we used joysticks with exactly that 4 directions. For what I'm saying now, you need to know, that the precision of a joystick is much higher, than with a keyboard. And I've also programmed games, where I drove with something similar as a car.
So I can say: Steering a car like so (4 buttons) is not possible so that you can "brake" and at the same time have full control over the car. O.K. in many cases it will work, but that is not reliable. You cannot control the buttons in a way, that for the software it is always clear, what you want. Or if you do it so, then the resulting drive-feeling is quite clumsy, some delay is needed (30-90 milliseconds). That is an eternity for game-control.


I would say this is possible:

4 buttons:
The car accelerates in the direction you press the button(s) and if you don't press it breaks. Simple.

5 buttons:
a) If you press a direction (4 buttons) the car accelerates into that direction and if you press the 5th button it breaks.
b) if you press the 5th button it accelerates. If not it breaks. The 4 directions change the direction.

There are steps between that, of course, but in general that are the solutions, that will work reliable and fast.

[sparr]

I'd like better vehicle controlling, but I fear it would restrict the direction you'd be able to drive to just 8 (N, NE, E, SE, S, SW, W, NW). The advantage of current controls is that you can steer and go whatever direction you want ... well once you've spent some time bumping everywhere

The way it works in the Better Vehicle Control mod is that you can drive in almost any direction you want. The only directions you can't drive are very close to compass directions. If you try to drive <5 degrees off a compass point, it adjusts for you.

So, you can drive at the following angles:

0 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 45 50 51 52...

[Klonan]

in 0.13 the steering of cars/tanks is scaled to the driving speed, this makes it much easier to control the direction

[Ranakastrasz]

Not really sure what advantage being able to go more than 8 normal directions is anyway. After all, biters, trains, and the player have this restriction. only the robots ignore it, and they don't obey the normal pathing rules.

[sparr]

in 0.13 the steering of cars/tanks is scaled to the driving speed, this makes it much easier to control the direction

I don't think you're describing the same problem that BVC fixes. I can't make a car line up with the compass even at low speed; this isn't related to the fact that it's hard to steer at high speed.

[Klonan]

in 0.13 the steering of cars/tanks is scaled to the driving speed, this makes it much easier to control the direction

I don't think you're describing the same problem that BVC fixes. I can't make a car line up with the compass even at low speed; this isn't related to the fact that it's hard to steer at high speed.

The car is also easier to steer at lower speeds, the steering speed also increases as you hold the direction, instead of veering hard right-left

[sparr]

We're still not talking about the same thing.

This isn't about general fine control of the car. This is about being able to get the car to drive in a known compass direction, so it's not slowly creeping into a wall or onto a train track.

When I'm driving for 30 seconds in a straight line, I don't want to be playing Desert Bus.