Endless science

[Cordylus]

It's a very simple sugestion about new bonus technologies to research that can't run out. It would be very useful for the late game. The possible researches could be small (1-3 %) bonuses for the energy production, decreasing pollution, production and mining speed, turret damage and range... etc. Of course the higher levels of these bonuses would be much more expensive.

[daniel34]

There is this mod: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =14&t=7702
which introduces infinite research, so you can waste your science packs, but get no benefits for it (useless research).
But later in the thread they discuss adding infinite research that gives small bonuses for several items.

We really should have some infinite research in the native game. Do you remember future technology in civilisation? Something like that. Every level would cost the double of the previous level (or something like that).

[ssilk]

Moved to won't implement. It doesn't mean, that there will be never something like this in the vanilla game.

[daniel34]

Moved to won't implement. It doesn't mean, that there will be never something like this in the vanilla game.

Why did you move it to Outdated/Not implemented ? (btw. the sub-forum is misspelled as "imlpemented")
I thought the Ideas and Suggestions forum was for implementation into the vanilla game.

I also would like to add that endless science with a small benefit (like +3% on turret damage, with x2, or sqrt(2) increase in science) would add something to the game after you've done all the research already present in Factorio.
Because of the current end-game (rocket defense) I rarely build it after I've beat the game, because I like to further use the current map and all the items, especially with Dytech and other mods. I like the idea that I can still increase stuff like turret damage, robot speed, ... after I've "beat" the main game.
The only thing to look out for in this case is that the benefit can not exceed the amount of science needed to get the next research, like mentioned above the x1.03 damage for x2 or x1.41 increase in science needed.

[ssilk]

Good question: why did I move it... I was perhaps a little bit too fast, not explaining the why.

I have three reasons:
1. This targets a need, that will be satisfied with v0.12 and v0.13: We will get the rocket-launcher, we will get rockets, we will need to built a complete spaceship, incredible big. That will be a resource sink, which brings a new type of game-play. Lots of new research is needed to achieve that, you will need ten, hundred, maybe thousand times more resources than now! Why is there some kind of "artificial research" needed, to keep your factory going?
2. This suggestion won't bring anything for the game-play. Indeed it's a step back. It solves a problem in a way, that is just a continuation of an already existing process.
3. There are many more suggestions, which are objectively/measurable better.

I mean the first point is clear. That alone make this suggestion obsolete in my eyes. There are some others, that also suggest this "kind of new resource sink" (for example https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=8817 )

The second point: why should I just continue the current type of research? That would be really, really boring, game-play wise it is a step back. And what is that in end-effect, technically spoken? only some more tech-recipes. No new game-mechanic. For me it's no question, that it won't be implemented like that. And we have this mod, so if someone really likes it so, well... and there are other mods, which can work like a resource sink, like the Creative Mode: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =14&t=8976

So, ok, for those, which are even then not satisfied: It's really difficult to find better suggestions in this jungle; when I look for "research" I find 66 pages... But I know they are there, so I turned on ssilk-bot into deep throat mode. Some of the found suggestions are about replacing the current research system, but they can be also seen as an extension, so I put them into this list. This is also the point of view I followed here: Is this suggestion usable as an extension? (with random order)

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=6&t=956 Option to deal with korean research system
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=3742 Modular research and crafting (Split research into research (of items and materials) and crafting with different items to achieve better results)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=6210 Thoughts on the tech tree
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=4677 Research Code (Complex suggestion)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=5100 An idea for restructiring research (more random research, labs are "holding" the researched stuff)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... earch+item* Feedback and suggestions (some more or less mentionable stuff)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=6&t=721 Research (my first suggestion I think)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =6&t=12331 Research-Center (some kind of continuation of this idea of enabling some kind of parallel research (cause I think the end of research breaks the flow of the game), also by me)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2838 Research & others (some point of view to the same problem)


PS: thank you for mentioning this typo, that are 2 month now, and nobody saw it...

[SHiRKiT]

I totally agree with ssilk. He couldn't be clearer. Actually, he gave 10x more than what was needed to explain the burrowing of the thread.

[daniel34]

Oh wow, I didn't expect this topic to get that detailed so fast.

This idea was meant for the 0.11.x version, where the end goal is to build the rocket defense and therefore win the game.
The easiest win would be to go straight for rocket defense. Other people prefer to fully unlock the tech tree before that.
Some people just want to have fun playing this game, and deliberately never place the rocket defense. And this suggestion is for these people.
The reason for this right now is that after placing the rocket defense, the game ends and all your progress on the current map will be lost. There's no more research to do, no goal to achieve.

you will need ten, hundred, maybe thousand times more resources than now

I think most players will be most content to finish this game in ~5-40h as it is now, but there are actual plans to increase the resource amount by 10x/100x/1000x ? (WTF?)

Why is there some kind of "artificial research" needed, to keep your factory going?

If you want to play Factorio in "endless" mode, you should always be able to research and improve new stuff, no matter the cost.
Some of us don't complete the game, but want to just play their map as far as they want.

I know that there's a campaign mode (I've never played it tbh) but most people prefer the free game mode.
I can imagine that in future versions the end-game you described

need to built a complete spaceship, incredible big [...] you will need ten, hundred, maybe thousand times more resources

might be the main mode that Factorio is gonna be played.
There still should be a freeplay game mode (endless game mode) where people play the game without any end-goal, just researching stuff and building their factories.

Apart from all that, is it that bad if there would be research for +3% turret damage every 300x red/green/blue/alien science? (or more in later levels)

[ssilk]

you will need ten, hundred, maybe thousand times more resources than now

I think most players will be most content to finish this game in ~5-40h as it is now, but there are actual plans to increase the resource amount by 10x/100x/1000x ? (WTF?)

I really don't know, but it must be more due to obvious reasons.

Why is there some kind of "artificial research" needed, to keep your factory going?

If you want to play Factorio in "endless" mode, you should always be able to research and improve new stuff, no matter the cost.
Some of us don't complete the game, but want to just play their map as far as they want.

Then install a mod. There are so many possibilities, that it makes no sense to do this with the vanilla.

Apart from all that, is it that bad if there would be research for +3% turret damage every 300x red/green/blue/alien science? (or more in later levels)

Well, this is some kind of balancing to enable some more. Not a major game change, like this suggestion. This suggestion is in my eyes too detailed, too much focused on research only. The target (using more resource to play longer or endless) could be achieved completely differently. Even without research.

[daniel34]

Moved this to Imlpemented Implemented (for 0.15), according to Friday Facts #161 - Infinite Research and Blueprint Library.