Research

[ssilk]

I'm totally new to this game.

I was playing the second campaign and was wondering how I could research electronics. ... because I could reach it in the technology tree.
The way was: Turrets -> Laser turrets -> laser -> electronics-1. Could see it, but could not research.

After a while it was clear to me, that it's turned off, because it's wanted in this campaign. But for me this wasn't obvious. I played about an hour until I understand, that there will be no change, no matter how much I research. I hope & think a new version will show the tree like in https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/index.php/Research - and unresearchable items aren't shown.

But I want to suggest something here. How would it be to create a buffer of research items, which are researched in some order, because in the beginning you will normally decide quick which way of research you want to go and don't want to be disturbed all the time.
The list has no fixed max-number of entries, like in many other games. The number of researches you can add to this list depends on, how long each research will take. If you know EVE-Online you will know, what I mean, but if not. But I explain it here in detail.

The list has a "memory" and remember the next researches for up to 50 research-points. So you can research iron-working (10 points), then turrets (also 10), then chemistry (40). Then the list is full, because that will take 60 research points. But you started at 20 points, so the start of the research can be stored inside the memory. With this "trick" it isn't possible to research the same amount of items in another order: First chemistry, then iron-working and then the list is full and no item can be added anymore.

I tried to show this:

Code: Select all

         1         2         3         4         5
12345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890


Example 1:
____________________________________________________________
iron-work| turrets |  chemistry                             |


Example 2:
_________________________________________________
chemistry                              |iron-work|     < no space left but you can add the next item, when 1 point of chemistry was researched!

So this leaves place for some optimization by the player and will speed up the game; especially when you tweak the costs for research some more.

[Arakasi]

research queue is nice idea, but this "memory" mechanism not necessary. I think the fixed length of researches will be more clear and understandable.

But how could we handle with still locked researches which will be unlocked in the feature? this might be checked before every research is started but it will confuse player because he already set the research queue but his desired tech is not researched and is skipped.
Better solution will be automatic checking whether research may be inserted into queue.

[ssilk]

research queue is nice idea, but this "memory" mechanism not necessary. I think the fixed length of researches will be more clear and understandable.

Ok. How about "you may research up to 3 items at the same time".

After researching one point it tries to research a point from the item next in the list. If this can't be research, it looks next, and so forth, until it "comes back" to the first one. So you can research 3 items in parallel (if they could be researched) or one after another - see down.

But how could we handle with still locked researches which will be unlocked in the feature? this might be checked before every research is started but it will confuse player because he already set the research queue but his desired tech is not researched and is skipped.
Better solution will be automatic checking whether research may be inserted into queue.

If you insert an item in the queue, which cannot be researched yet, it automatically inserts the items, needed to research that, until all needed things are researched. This is the game-principle as with building something.

Hm. If you implement it like this, no queue is needed.

[Arakasi]

Ok. How about "you may research up to 3 items at the same time".

Parallel research will bring only much slower research nothing more. I am against this idea. Queue is fine.

If you insert an item in the queue, which cannot be researched yet, it automatically inserts the items, needed to research that, until all needed things are researched. This is the game-principle as with building something.

Hm. If you implement it like this, no queue is needed.

Yes, that is the great idea. Just click on the most advanced technology and wait what happen. This kind of automation ruins the game. Is there any game where similar mechanism works and has additional value?

[ssilk]

Parallel research will bring only much slower research nothing more. I am against this idea. Queue is fine.

Ok, just a stupid queue. You can insert anything into it. The icons show the state (red or green). If one research is ready, it looks, if the next can be startet, and so on. If nothing can be researched: your fail.

If you insert an item in the queue, which cannot be researched yet, it automatically inserts the items, needed to research that, until all needed things are researched. This is the game-principle as with building something.
Hm. If you implement it like this, no queue is needed.

Yes, that is the great idea. Just click on the most advanced technology and wait what happen. This kind of automation ruins the game. Is there any game where similar mechanism works and has additional value?

Pff. Got me. Forget about that.

[MF-]

If the queue handles the "end of research" situation, there would be no real need for parallel research.
(Trying to avoid a situation where there is one unit left, but 10 labs researching it. (or one researching and rest purposely idle))

[ssilk]

As Arakasi already wrote parallel research is a bad idea. But I like the queue-idea and tried to explained it as "a stupid queue" in the quote to him. Perhaps too stupid; more explanation needed.

The queue list a list of entries. If you research one item, it is inserted as leftmost. The icon has the same color as in the research-tree (green: can be research, red: cannot be researched, yellow doesn't make sense to reinsert). Rest: see up.

[slpwnd]

The queue could be useful. However for me when I play the game it is a good feeling to research something new. I sort of feel like in the candy shop when I skim through the technologies what to do next. Good point is that this is usually not the case in the beginning when the research path is clear.

[FreeER]

The queue could be useful. However for me when I play the game it is a good feeling to research something new. I sort of feel like in the candy shop when I skim through the technologies what to do next. Good point is that this is usually not the case in the beginning when the research path is clear.

+1 (still no like button ) This is even more so when I have five mods (some betas) in my folder .