Undo/Redo indication

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Taneeda
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Undo/Redo indication

Post by Taneeda »

What
Indications/icons for undo and redo.
why
See viewtopic.php?f=6&t=69903
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In my opinion this is worth an own topic :D
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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by jodokus31 »

+1
Could be done in conjunction with the new arrow indicators

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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by Baked-Potato »

I agree. It doesn't even need to be a button, just having any sort of redo would be great. Ctrl-shift-z or ctrl-y would be the most common. When you undo too far redoing is very necessary, otherwise random previous stuff gets deconstructed.

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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by BicycleEater »

+1
The worst thing about undo is that it can change something miles away, which I will never remember. (Even just 1 stage of redo would be so much better)
If this can't be done then some form of barrier for undoing things from too long ago - perhaps a time limit on undo, which you can set from the options, as I never want to undo something from more than ~30 seconds ago.

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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by ssilk »

BicycleEater wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:04 pm
The worst thing about undo is that it can change something miles away, which I will never remember.
That’s the reason, why I would like to see somehow, WHAT will change.

Maybe, when I hover over the buttons, that the tiles that will be changed are marked with some color. And if not on map I see arrows into the direction.
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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by SoShootMe »

ssilk wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am
Maybe, when I hover over the buttons, that the tiles that will be changed are marked with some color. And if not on map I see arrows into the direction.
This doesn't help after the fact or when using the keyboard. How about creating an alert for what was undone, if it is not currently visible, complete with arrow(s)?

Highlighting changes or pointing to them when you hover over the undo button seems a nice idea though (maybe draw boxes around things that would be affected, like when selecting them). The same could be done momentarily after a keyboard undo to provide a visual indication of what changed (I've seen similar done elsewhere but I can't remember where).

I think that though a way to see what will be and/or has been affected by an undo would help, redo is at least equally beneficial. "Ctrl+Z, Ctrl+Z, ..., Ctrl+Z, oops, one too many, Ctrl+Y" is not an infrequent sequence for me outside of Factorio. The same scenario in Factorio replaces "Ctrl+Y" with the frustration of "err... what did I just undo?"

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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by ssilk »

SoShootMe wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:24 am
ssilk wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:01 am
Maybe, when I hover over the buttons, that the tiles that will be changed are marked with some color. And if not on map I see arrows into the direction.
This doesn't help after the fact
What “redo” is for.
or when using the keyboard.
It would help if there is a shortcut to see that.
But as experienced player (working with keyboard only), I either know how many times I need to undo, or not. And for that case I’m willing to use my mouse to see, what will be changed.
How about creating an alert for what was undone, if it is not currently visible, complete with arrow(s)?
For me it is an open question: how far away makes undo sense?
Highlighting ... The same could be done momentarily after a keyboard undo to provide a visual indication of what changed
Yes, good point.
I think that though a way to see what will be and/or has been affected by an undo would help, redo is at least equally beneficial. "Ctrl+Z, Ctrl+Z, ..., Ctrl+Z, oops, one too many, Ctrl+Y" is not an infrequent sequence for me outside of Factorio. The same scenario in Factorio replaces "Ctrl+Y" with the frustration of "err... what did I just undo?"
The problem with Factorio is, that this could lead to a point where I destruct an important outpost and that will be overrun, because the robots begun to remove the lasers, before I could press redo. This is different to most other applications.
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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by SoShootMe »

ssilk wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:59 am
But as experienced player (working with keyboard only), I either know how many times I need to undo, or not. And for that case I’m willing to use my mouse to see, what will be changed.
...
The problem with Factorio is, that this could lead to a point where I destruct an important outpost and that will be overrun, because the robots begun to remove the lasers, before I could press redo. This is different to most other applications.
What I was trying to describe (and applies both in Factorio and not) is the case when I think I know how many times I need to undo but I get it wrong. I'm pressing Ctrl+Z a few times while observing the changes, but there's a small lag between the keypress and processing the observation, sometimes leading me to go (one step) too far. I know almost immediately I need to redo but rather than a single keypress, in Factorio, I have to remember what and where (or, more likely, faff about trying to figure that out), and then repeat the action.
ssilk wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:59 am
For me it is an open question: how far away makes undo sense?
Indeed, how far away but also how long ago (as BicycleEater mentioned).

I'm not convinced by the idea of a hard cut-off (such as a configurable time after which undo is not possible) because I can't imagine it not being sometimes too far/short and sometimes too near/long. However, in the absence of redo, perhaps a softer barrier, eg "Undoing far away/long ago, repeat to proceed", similar to when you attempt to use a console command that will disable achievements would be effective (it would work for me in the case I described above). Maybe a bit weird. Yeah, probably that :).

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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by stagdancer »

Ok, this feature would be really useful!

Some actions don't feature in the "undo" chain. I've just been optimizing a station, adding circuit controls, cables, and tweaking some modules. But none of that counts as undoable actions. So I just hooked a wire to the wrong inserter and hit undo - and whatever I was last doing before this, 10 minutes beforehand, is now broken. It feels like an Enderman has turned up and just removed some component at random! Chaos monkey at work...

I don't think you can reasonably have long-term unconstrained undo, whilst having actions that aren't part of the undo system - it's unpredictable, surprising and rather painful.

Suggestion: UNDO only works if the item affected is visible on-screen, otherwise you get a "Bzzt! Can't undo item you can't see!", with a border arrow pointing in the direction of the off-screen item. Redo would be better though.

I'm now training myself to place a few dummy chests before I do any circuit work, just to absorb any accidental reflex undos...

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Re: Undo/Redo indication

Post by NotRexButCaesar »

Redo is something that I think feels “missing” from the game. It isn’t as much an extra as a filling in.
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