Force train with empty schedule to manual

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evg-zhabotinsky
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Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by evg-zhabotinsky »

TL;DR
Train list says that empty-scheduled trains are in "Manual mode", but they really aren't until you flip the switch in GUI, and this is quite inconvenient.
When a train has empty schedule, is still often ends up in "auto" (e.g. after ctrl-click waypoint), which often is inconvenient (WASD and roboport don't work).

What ?
When a train has empty schedule, force it to full-manual mode. Maybe even grey out the "Automatic" switch in GUI. This includes when the last temporary stop is auto-removed and there are no regular stops.

Why ?
I'm not exactly sure how a train without a schedule is treated, but that state isn't very useful. You cannot control it with WASD. Your personal roboport doesn't work if you are in it. Inserters cannot load or unload its cargo. It is as if the train is moving but not really. The list of all trains says it is in "Manual mode", but you can't honestly call it that. (New trains overview fixed the last bit.)

As I see it, a train schedule can be empty in one of two cases:
  1. It is a new train and you haven't filled the schedule yet.
  2. It is a "personal" train that you use to move around and carry stuff that didn't fit into your inventory.
In the first case I don't see the point of switching such train to auto, and in the second you probably want to use manual controls and your personal roboport.

The train already switches to "Auto" automatically when you Ctrl-click a temporary stop, so IMO it would also make sense to switch it back when it arrives, at least when there are no other stops. I feel that is especially true now when 1.1.0 lets you control the train you are in through the map instead of the train GUI.

Also, I personally often miss a little when Ctrl-clicking those temporary stops, and when the train arrives I have to manually switch to "Manual" before I can use WASD to get train's tail out of a busy intersection or whatever.

Also, maybe that is a bug, but currently trains with empty schedule in "Auto" are deadlock hazard: Given a choice between driving through an unrelated station and waiting for who knows how long for such a train to go away, another train would chose to wait forever. Just flick that switch to "Manual" and the waiting train suddenly realizes that "Oh, I could go through that station instead! The one I'm blocking the only entrance to anyway." (Fixed, there now is train_auto_without_schedule_penalty of 7000.)
Last edited by evg-zhabotinsky on Sat Jan 09, 2021 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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AmericanPatriot
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Re: Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by AmericanPatriot »

I think that this should be reported as a bug. I haven’t checked myself, but if the menu says a train is manual when it isn’t, that is a bug.
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Re: Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by ssilk »

First one: I don’t know if this is a bug, I could move this to bugs, but I won’t in this case. Instead I made an extra post.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=93451

Second thing: That sounds like an interesting case of balancing the train path penalty. https://wiki.factorio.com/Railway/Train_path_finding

Someone needs to write that bug report with an example, but I think there is not much that can be done.
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evg-zhabotinsky
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Re: Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by evg-zhabotinsky »

The train overview part is fixed in the new (awesome!) trains GUI.
Path penalty for empty-schedule train is now 7000 (like empty manual train), so no more deadlocks either.

However, the other inconveniences for the "personal train" usecase remain:
  • Train remains in "auto" after arriving at the last temporary waypoint, even with empty schedule.
  • In that state, WASD and personal roboport do not work.
  • To leave that state, it is required to click the train and then the small "auto" toggle in its GUI, which is annoying if you do it often.

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ssilk
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Re: Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by ssilk »

I use a mod to make that more comfortable.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/auto_manual_mode

I find it feels super natural and I wish that to be in vanilla. ;)
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Re: Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by ptx0 »

on the contrary i like when trains without schedule are automatic. i use a mod to ensure this occurs, called "Do Robots Build Automatic Trains?" because when in automatic mode you can copy/paste schedule between trains and not have to open the UI.

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Re: Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by ssilk »

ptx0 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:11 am
on the contrary i like when trains without schedule are automatic. i use a mod to ensure this occurs, called "Do Robots Build Automatic Trains?" because when in automatic mode you can copy/paste schedule between trains and not have to open the UI.
Really? I would think you can copy that also in manual mode?
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Re: Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by ptx0 »

ssilk wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:26 am
ptx0 wrote:
Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:11 am
on the contrary i like when trains without schedule are automatic. i use a mod to ensure this occurs, called "Do Robots Build Automatic Trains?" because when in automatic mode you can copy/paste schedule between trains and not have to open the UI.
Really? I would think you can copy that also in manual mode?
the special part is that I make sure that the trains are in automatic mode when there is no schedule. then, i give it a schedule, and it goes about its duties without me having to open its UI.

if this were implemented, i wouldn't be able to do that. I would have to set a schedule before it could be put into automatic mode. they wanted the tab "grayed out".

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Re: Force train with empty schedule to manual

Post by ssilk »

Yeah. I mean alone that there is the mod “do robots build automatic trains”, says me, that there is a need for some change.

Or there are the discussions about what schedule should be set for temporary stations.

I would appreciate, if we had here some suggestions, that try to look at these problems from a more distant perspective, not only from the personal needs and habits.
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