Patrol mode for Spidertron

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conn11
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Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by conn11 »

TL;DR
You should be able to set waypoints for Spidertron, probably edit them in a train schedule like manner.
What
shift clicking should set waypoints
shift clicking should set waypoints
waypoints.JPG (19.65 KiB) Viewed 3766 times
they should act like trainstops (time passed; item count) and be configurable via the spidertron GUI
they should act like trainstops (time passed; item count) and be configurable via the spidertron GUI
shedule.JPG (29.63 KiB) Viewed 3766 times
Why ?
Remote building by Spidertron is great, how about remote defending a location.
For example:
(mining) outpost can be automatically defended easy enough, kilometers of rails rather not. Even if only concetrating on relevant choke points, creating a defensive station and logistic network for repairs and supplies is rather tedious.

In comes Spidertron, set to repeat a plotted course, maybe with optional delays at selected waypoints (done like the train schedule).
This would interact greatly with the expected logistic tab in 1.1 and allow for advanced (remote) manoeuvrability.

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by ssilk »

You describe a mod. :)
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Re: Shift+Click with Spidertron remote to queue movements

Post by BHakluyt »

Yes please

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by Koub »

[Koub] Merged into existing topic with similar suggestion.
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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by jmkool »

Adding my voice to this suggestion, came here looking for it. I propose something a little cleaner and possibly easier to implement though:

Shift-click would issue a series of commands to Spidertron. Hold shift and make several clicks to tell spidey "go here, then here, then here, then here."

Ctrl-click would issue a repeating series of commands (a patrol route). "Go here, then here, then here, and when done go back to where you started and begin again."

With this, you could easily tell Spidertron to path around a lake, or weave through several nests in a row, or snake his way through an outpost he's building. You could also set a perimeter patrol loop around your base. My one concern with the patrol mode is that it potentially places a strain on the pathfinding as it eternally loops, but as I'm no dev I'll voice it anyway and let them consider that.

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by conn11 »

Though I think this would be a great addition to vanilla, especially with the upcoming logistics slots (source: wiki)

For the meantime there is a mod for that.

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by Qon »

jmkool wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:53 pm
My one concern with the patrol mode is that it potentially places a strain on the pathfinding
Rest assured it won't, because there isn't one for Spidertron. The existence of this thread is enough proof I think.

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by Xorimuth »

As the author of the Spidertron Waypoints mod (which also adds patrols), I thought that I'd better weigh in :)
I think that a whole scheduler (like trains have) would probably be a bit much, but a simple shift-click to place waypoints would be great to have in the base game. Currently mods cannot differentiate between a click and a shift-click on a spidertron remote, so my mod works instead with 'modes' that have to be switched between.

It would put no extra stress on the pathfinder because spidertrons _have_ no pathfinder (and that is also why being able to place waypoints to manually pathfind around lakes etc would be so useful!)

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by Qon »

Xorimuth wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:11 pm
It would put no extra stress on the pathfinder because spidertrons _have_ no pathfinder (and that is also why being able to place waypoints to manually pathfind around lakes etc would be so useful!)
Hello Xori :)

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=88991

I've been considering making a bug-0 or bug-2 (bug-1 seems impractical) mod for spidertron. Obstacle avoidance without a pathfinder and negligable UPS impact if done right. Not sure if it would be a better fit for your mod or if it would be worse. Waypoints and obstacle avoidance can be used together but waypoints can do more while requiring more manual control while automatic obstacle avoidance is... automatic. And it would be nice if the bug-algorithm spiders could work together with all mods that order spiders around. If it applied more automatically then maybe Spidertron logistics system would be able to work with it too, etc.

So I'm leaning towards that it should be a separate mod anyway. So if I make it then I guess we have another project to collaborate on since I would like it to be compatible with your mod :)

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by Xorimuth »

Qon wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:42 am
Xorimuth wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:11 pm
It would put no extra stress on the pathfinder because spidertrons _have_ no pathfinder (and that is also why being able to place waypoints to manually pathfind around lakes etc would be so useful!)
Hello Xori :)

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=88991

I've been considering making a bug-0 or bug-2 (bug-1 seems impractical) mod for spidertron. Obstacle avoidance without a pathfinder and negligable UPS impact if done right. Not sure if it would be a better fit for your mod or if it would be worse. Waypoints and obstacle avoidance can be used together but waypoints can do more while requiring more manual control while automatic obstacle avoidance is... automatic. And it would be nice if the bug-algorithm spiders could work together with all mods that order spiders around. If it applied more automatically then maybe Spidertron logistics system would be able to work with it too, etc.

So I'm leaning towards that it should be a separate mod anyway. So if I make it then I guess we have another project to collaborate on since I would like it to be compatible with your mod :)
Sounds fun. Is that just giving the Spidertron some biter AI? It would be a good fit for a different mod, but Spidertron Waypoints has (I think) all the remote interfaces that you’d need for compatibility. Of course let me know if you need more :)

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by Qon »

Xorimuth wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:49 am
Sounds fun. Is that just giving the Spidertron some biter AI? It would be a good fit for a different mod, but Spidertron Waypoints has (I think) all the remote interfaces that you’d need for compatibility. Of course let me know if you need more :)
I haven't checked the waypoint remote interfaces yet. I might do that later though.

Bug-0,1,2 algorithms have nothing to do with Factorio "bugs". Factorio natives ("Bug") AI has pathfinding. Bug-x algorithms are NOT pathfinding algorithms, they are obstacle avoidance algorithms named such because it looks like the behaviour of an insect.

Pathfinding here meaning algorithms that can "know" the entire surface and plan a path, which means returns waypoints from start to finish where each straight line segment doesn't intersect obstacles like water, or nil if no path is possible.

Obstacle avoidance here meaning "try to get closer with only local information". It's just looking at the immediate surroundings, never any further than what its legs can reach. And it doesn't return a plan, only a direction to walk in current moment. It can't find out if there's no path (like to an island) except by walking the entire way around the shore until it returns to a point where it has been before. So it uses constant and minimal memory and CPU, but might not find the shortest path. It is formalising the concept of "Walk towards the point if possible. If you run into something, take some steps to the side and try again" with some extra variations and tricks. But its not pathplanning just like walking straight towards the next waypoint is not it. It's a bit similar to the maze solving algorithm "follow the wall to your left" which guarantees that you find the end if all walls are connected.

A obstacle avoidance algorithm can be turned into a (at least heuristicly driven with no guarantees) pathfinding planning algorithm by simulating the steps it would take for a while and return the positions the virtual bug would take, if given read access to the surface.

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by TheRangerLOL »

It may just be me (but probably not), but the Spidertron really reminds me of Konosuba. ;)
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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by ssilk »

TheRangerLOL wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:26 pm
It may just be me (but probably not), but the Spidertron really reminds me of Konosuba. ;)
KonoSuba: God's Blessing on this Wonderful World! is a Japanese light novel series written by Natsume Akatsuki. The series follows Kazuma Satō, a boy who is sent to a fantasy world with MMORPG elements following his death, where he forms a dysfunctional party with a goddess, a wizard, and a crusader.

:?: :?: :?:
I think I missed the link... :)
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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by TheRangerLOL »

There's a thing somewhere in the show but i'm trying to avoid spoiling it
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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by eradicator »

ssilk wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 12:51 am
I think I missed the link... :)
Just google for 機動要塞デストロイヤー :P

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by ssilk »

Japanese anime ... I thought I was over it for 20 years ... now ... I need to watch it. :D
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Spidertron patrol mode

Post by Impatient »

TL;DR
Give spidertron a patrol mode, that lets it move along the same waypoint loop infinitely.
What ?
A Patrol mode for spidertron would need two things:
- A way to set a waypoint sequence that is remembered.
- A way to set a special waypoint, where spidey waits for some amount of time before entering it's next patrol loop, as repair and restock point.

A patrol mode for spidertron would allow it to move along a set waypoint loop infinitely. The waypoint sequence that can be set as of Factorio version 1.1 would need to be remembered, so that spidey can head to the first waypoint once it reaches the last one. As spidey might be damaged and might have used up ammo while moving around, there is also the need for a special waypoint, where it "rests" for some time, to give it a way to be repaired and restocked by bots.
Why ?
One word: Automatic biter control

IMO with the introduction of spidertron in 1.0 and it's waypoint sequence in 1.1 a - potential - viable new option for automatic biter control entered the arena. Up until now, to automatically counter biter attacks before they even happen, one would set up artillery emplacements or artillery trains (which run a perimeter patrol schedule - hint hint), which destroy biter nests as soon as they are established. Spidey and it's friends - more spidertrons - could also do this fully automated if a patrol loop could be set up.

I already can do this halfway automated:
- I place marks on the map, by which I remember what the waypoints on the patrol route should be.
- Then let spidey run the route once and use a stop watch to get the time it needs.
- Then I set up a timer circuitry and a programmable speaker, that notifies me when the time is up.

- To initiate one patrol loop I click the waypoints from start to end and I initiate the timer.
- When the time is up, I click on the alert icon, that gets me to spidey's resting point and I can iniate another patrol loop.

But of course, that is not fully automated.

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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by Koub »

[Koub] Merged into older tropic with same suggestion.
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Re: Patrol mode for Spidertron

Post by SupplyDepoo »

I think this might be too OP.
  1. Pack spidertron with construction bots, repair packs & personal laser defenses.
  2. Set patrol route.
  3. ???
  4. Almost free defense. No fuel or ammo needed. Not sure you even need repair bots if you add 2 or 3 MkII shields.
And if it isn't enough, you could simply add one or two spidertrons and it would surely be enough. 3 spidertrons could protect an entire factory for free and it would be super easy to do.

Not to mention the huge potential for using spidertrons for long-distance bulk transport, i.e. taking the job of trains.

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