Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

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AndrewGeil
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Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

Post by AndrewGeil » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:22 am

I want to see large rail networks as a staple of the game.
-Large Train networks are not needed because of resource abundance. I would like to see the likelihood of resource node spawning during map creation diminish in relation to it's distance from your starting point. (You start with enough resources to get your base going but have to go further and further to find resource nodes (this should be adjustable in Map Editor also). This makes Trains a necessity instead of just something we all do because we are man-childs.

-Currently, biters are like a mold that start off as tiny specks on the map and just keep filling the map. This means you have to wait till the end of the game to clear/slaughter a path to far away resource nodes. How biters evolve, decide to attack, and how bases spawn needs tweaked for this "Rail World" style play to ever be viable.

-Pollution currently affects evolution rate and signals biters to attack. I would like to change this and add AGGRESSION (as another type of pollution).
===Aggression, like pollution, should spread outward from actions like killing biters and bases (maybe trees if biters are the immune response of the planet). This means your aggression (locally) will increase as biters throw themselves at your defenses repeatedly (if you don't clear the nest). Aggression, plus pollution, should determine when biters attack. This means pollution won't auto trigger an attack as soon as it reaches a biter herd. Aggression is local, this means when you expand your rail network out, you have neither pollution, nor aggression far way from your factory at new mining outposts. Aggression should also be the sole factor of Biter Evolution since Pollution would have a new role.
===Pollution shouldn't trigger an automatic attack. Biters should have to reach a threshold of Pollution plus Aggression to attack (i.e. X+Y>10). Pollution should be required for new bases to spawn. This prevents the entire world from drowning in nests in the late game. Pollution spread would need to be increased if it no longer provoked immediate attacks and was used as a factor when deciding base spawn. When we finally venture out, building our Rail Networks to needed resource nodes, we have to punch through the biter bases that have encircled our polluting factory. Once we get outside this shell, we could build rail lines relatively unmolested by massive biter base spawns of current late games. I would see one other minor change in biter base spawn.
===Biter Base distribution during map creation should be set to spawn on every resource outside of a starting area (adjustable distance in map editor). This means when you build your rail network out, you are forced to create Aggression by killing the bases that are sitting on top of resource nodes. Biter Bases would still start the game a certain distance from each other which means when you start mining (polluting) these distant locations, base creep will start happening around your mining outposts.

I would like to see some other items in the game to facilitate "Rail World" but I thought the mechanics were needed first to make "Rail World" a neccessity.

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Re: Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

Post by bobingabout » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:50 am

The resource generator as part of the map generator is weight based, increasing the frequency or size slider will also increase richness to an extent, likewise increasing richness will increase size and frequency. so if you want large deposits, but few and far between, you need to use map settings that aren't at the extremes (Maximum or minimum)
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Re: Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

Post by FishSandwich » Thu Jan 22, 2015 11:41 am

For the resources part, the RSO mod does pretty much exactly what you're asking.

For the biters, well, ideas for major changes to an almost complete game tend not to go down well.. :p

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Re: Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

Post by AndrewGeil » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:43 pm

bobingabout wrote:The resource generator as part of the map generator is weight based, increasing the frequency or size slider will also increase richness to an extent, likewise increasing richness will increase size and frequency. so if you want large deposits, but few and far between, you need to use map settings that aren't at the extremes (Maximum or minimum)
I understand how the resource generator works and it doesn't do what I want. The resource generator works in a straight-line providing a constant value over the entire generated map. If you pick any 1000x1000 tile map section, it will have roughly the same resources as the next section. I want
something that works progressively to diminish resources the further you get from the starting location {think along the lines of (1/(1+%)^Distance)}. Imagine looking at this map from above, the middle would be a (relative) dense cluster of resources slowly thinning the further out you go until you have nothing. I don't claim to be an expert in math or game mechanics...I just think this would help push people into building larger train networks out of necessity.

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Re: Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

Post by AndrewGeil » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:52 pm

FishSandwich wrote:For the biters, well, ideas for major changes to an almost complete game tend not to go down well.. :p
Yeah, I am under no delusions about my ideas getting implemented.

Biters are a joke once you have destroyer capsules and there are no repercussions to slaughtering Biters in the late game because they are pretty much maxed out in strength relative to you. If you slaughter thousands of biters, the should be pissed at you, not evolve spitters that only agro when they hit smog...

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Re: Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

Post by FishSandwich » Thu Jan 22, 2015 7:59 pm

The Hardcorio mod might be just what you're looking for.

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Re: Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

Post by psihius » Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:07 pm

AndrewGeil wrote:
bobingabout wrote:The resource generator as part of the map generator is weight based, increasing the frequency or size slider will also increase richness to an extent, likewise increasing richness will increase size and frequency. so if you want large deposits, but few and far between, you need to use map settings that aren't at the extremes (Maximum or minimum)
I understand how the resource generator works and it doesn't do what I want. The resource generator works in a straight-line providing a constant value over the entire generated map. If you pick any 1000x1000 tile map section, it will have roughly the same resources as the next section. I want
something that works progressively to diminish resources the further you get from the starting location {think along the lines of (1/(1+%)^Distance)}. Imagine looking at this map from above, the middle would be a (relative) dense cluster of resources slowly thinning the further out you go until you have nothing. I don't claim to be an expert in math or game mechanics...I just think this would help push people into building larger train networks out of necessity.
Well, you want resources to diminish the further away from the starting area you go. I want it to be exactly the oposite :) More to the point, I want resource rich areas with relatively large distances between them. So I can do outposts, that are not just for a single patch of iron/copper/coal/stone. but are like a 500x500 resource rich area and then like 2-3k tile till next nearest resource patch. Sure, they can be only a single type resource patch, or contain all 4 and even oil.

The fact is, people want different things. That's why the game is moddable.

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Re: Change to Biters, Biter Bases, Pollution, Resources

Post by AndrewGeil » Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:01 pm

psihius wrote:Well, you want resources to diminish the further away from the starting area you go. I want it to be exactly the oposite :) .
Keep in mind, the OBJECTIVE of these changes was to make Trains a necessity instead of just something we do because they are cool. That said, I think adding this to map editor gives us the option without imposing the necessity of larger train networks on others.

Just to make sure I am clear, I don't want the size of deposits to decrease, only the frequency of them as your distance increases. Top down view of your train network should look kind of like a spider's web...kinda.

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