Flying buildings

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ssilk
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Flying buildings

Post by ssilk » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:15 pm

I currently read Ringworld. Fascinating book. :)
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There are flying buildings. That might be useful, when we come to the space travel and build a big spaceship (how to move things around in space?). Or to build huge self-traveling stuff, like a flying roboport. Or handling of really big items.

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The technology of the flying buildings are simple, cause the ground of the ringworld is a superconductor. The houses are flying by minimal (near zero, cause of superconductors) power usage.

For Factorio this means, we need to lay the ground out with superconductor-plates. This matches also to some often mentioned suggestion to have plates, to protect you from digging worms or have more speed on ground, streets and so on.

In other words: To have flying buildings (or other flying objects), we need 2 basic technologies, which are plates and superconductor. That might need more stuff. The plates need to be build in a minimum distance (like about 10-30% of the ground must be covered per chunk).

This is also the base technology for expansion in a 10-20 times bigger scope than now.
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Re: Flying buildings

Post by Overread » Fri Jan 02, 2015 3:17 pm

IF you've seen the film Steamboy then all you need is highly compressed steam (and lots of brass and cogs of course)

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Flying buildings would be interesting, but they'd have to come with an increase in terrain obstacles. At present the land is flat and easy to traverse and even water expanses are only a minor problem. So there's little reason to want to build flight capable buildings. Flight in itself is viable, but a flying building offers little reason to exist unless harvesting air based resources?

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Re: Flying buildings

Post by Garm » Fri Jan 02, 2015 4:57 pm

How would it merge with old designs?

Atm apart from producing plates and superconductors it would appear the previous factories are not needed anymore. This might make current factory designs irrelevant, and force players to rush for said research in the next playthroughs

Refer to my other post for more detail

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Re: Flying buildings

Post by ssilk » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:16 am

The terrain: I think we will become a second level, like in Starcraft, the Devs mentioned it somewhere when they discussed the new terrain. But this levels are no reason not having this.

@Garm: you mentioned Roboport trains, train roboports. I like that idea, I think I've suggested it in the trainlayer mod thread, but we are speaking here very different stages of the game.

The trainlayer - I hope this comes into the game - is easy to implement. I think it would be possible to make a mod for that.

The Flying Buildings come much later. This is, where the current endgame ends. Or later. There is no way to wait so long. You cannot rush for this, cause you need other stuff first.

I want to mention also the possibilities to have superconductors on ground:
- sweeping cars (Star Wars)
- robots don't need (so much) power and can fly in space (without air)
- superconductor rails
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Re: Flying buildings

Post by Garm » Sat Jan 03, 2015 8:32 pm

It is irrelevant how late something comes into play. If it makes entire factory layout unnecessary it is wrong. And you underestimate players - if we perceive something as "essential" we will rush towards it, and consider everything in between as "preparation" stage and moan that its so long. Trust me i've seen it happen.


Current factory balance is fine mostly there is no need to drastically redesign it anymore, not even at the "end". What we need is ideas that expand on current design, use it as their foundation, relying on it all the time instead.


Your main base should matter through entire game.

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Re: Flying buildings

Post by ssilk » Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:23 pm

Garm, this is demotivating.

I didn't say anything about, which buildings, which function, how it should work in detail. Just two examples, the flying roboport and flying bots. And you think this will change the whole game?

This is nothing more than a suggestion about combining two technologies: plates and superconductor and the potential results.
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Re: Flying buildings

Post by Garm » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:47 pm

Then explain in more detail. Evolve the idea. This is what this for is about.


ATM what I see from current explanation paints a bit bleak picture in my mind - and i voice it.

I wont say I am proficient in this field, but i had my little share of game design, community moderation, GMing, and beta testing, which i base my opinion upon.

You want to change my opinion? Go for it - i wont mind since both me and you are here for one thing only - to make this game better.

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Re: Flying buildings

Post by ssilk » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:00 pm

I don't have more atm. :oops:

Flying buildings is a vision, not a complete concept. I think about, how it might look, how it fits into the game, not how it plays. Not yet.
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Re: Flying buildings

Post by leeknivek » Mon Jan 05, 2015 2:14 am

And that's why you posted, right? To discuss and build on the idea. I think you both made some good points - I like the idea of superconductors, but I think flying roboports are too easy.

When I build roboports, I try to get the most out of them. I place them in a grid where they all connect at the maximum distance. Seems like the logical thing to do, I think. But that gets in the way - like, when you're ONE tile away from having that new assembler chain fit perfectly. You have to plan ahead, think about where they'll go. Compromise between layout and coverage.

Another point - that would be very, very, very tedious to cover your base. Unless the plates are mostly big but with smaller, obscure pieces to fill unavoidable gaps. Ever try building something large in Minecraft? It takes hours to build floors and walls of any large scale. So I think it would be ideal to have something relatively easily automated, yet not something necessary. What I mean is that, until you're capable of blueprinting up cities, its not beneficial enough to where one would rush to get it.

Floating vehicles I like, though. That seems like a good idea and a good basis with the superconductor floors.

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Re: Flying buildings

Post by ssilk » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:39 pm

Well. I see I should exclude the Flying Roboport. :)

The reason why I wanted that is just this: You cannot build an unlimited big logistic network. Yes, of course, you can build it! But with the expansion is behaves like N², quadratic time. And worse. That takes me the fun and I think others, too. This is an dead end.

We need some mechanism to build faster. Much, much faster. At the same time we need something, to keep the number of bots low, cause they really eat up the CPU-time.

But, well, these themes are really completely different.
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Re: Flying buildings

Post by leeknivek » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:01 pm

Faster, in terms of what? How fast construction bots lay down blueprint items?

Maybe the upgraded bots - Bob's mod or DyTech style - would be sufficient? I haven't fooled around with them enough to say for sure.

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Re: Flying buildings

Post by ssilk » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:11 pm

Ok, I go off topic here: Simply by coming away from spreading with N², instead spreading with N.
How? The supply for building must be much faster. My last big suggestions are only about that.

Hope this is now enough off-topic. :)
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