Save game names

Post your ideas and suggestions how to improve the game.
User avatar
Nova
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:13 am
Contact:

Save game names

Post by Nova » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:24 pm

Please, please please please please remove the weird restrictions on the save names. Not being able to use nearly anything to format the names is really, really annoying. No dot, no comma, no space(!!!), no colon, no semicolon. Only letters and numbers. The best idea would be to encode the name. Something like the url encoding. Or base64, but that's not readable. (But you would have to replace the "/")

"Oh, already 10 am? I should go to sleep. Better save the game. Okay, the name... 'Factory 1'..." - Evil name, can't save, you idiot! - "NOOOOO!!!"... er, well...
Greetings, Nova.
Factorio is one of the greatest games I ever played, with one of the best developers I ever heard of. Image

FishSandwich
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1847
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by FishSandwich » Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:54 pm

I use underscores in place of spaces.

Boogieman14
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Boogieman14 » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:21 pm

While I agree the file naming rules are somewhat restrictive, I think that encoding in any form reduces readability, which doesn't seem like a good idea in general. Given the multitude of platforms factorio runs on, I can understand certain limitations should be in place. Colon is out because of Windows, backslash is out because of windows (directory separator) and *nix (Linux/Mac - escape character), forward slash is out because of *nix. Space and dot should be reasonably safe (although filenames starting with a dot are probably a bad idea in *nix) and characters such as !@#$%^&() will probably also be safe on most platforms.

That said, until this post I wasn't even aware there were any restrictions enforced, so to an IT-oldtimer like myself these restrictions are perfectly natural. I always use the - (dash) to separate parts of the filename.
I don't have OCD, I have CDO. It's the same, but with the letters in the correct order.

User avatar
Nova
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:13 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Nova » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:22 am

Readability is no problem. The encoding is only on file level, not ingame. The user will never see it if they don't search for the save files.
"these restrictions are perfectly natural" << What the? They are stupid and should be removed as soon as possible.

Oh, and NEVER EVER use a dot as the beginning of a file or a directory. At least if the program should ever run on Windows. I hate minecraft for using a ".minecraft" directory.


I don't really want alternatives for this problem, but thanks for the try. It's just something which had do be solved a few versions ago.
Greetings, Nova.
Factorio is one of the greatest games I ever played, with one of the best developers I ever heard of. Image

User avatar
bobingabout
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 6724
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 1:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by bobingabout » Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:55 am

modern windows is okay with the . at the front, .htaccess I think is the name of a file to control some internet access stuff, and saves fine on my hard drive now that I'm using windows 7, not XP.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.
I also have a Patreon.

MF-
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:07 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by MF- » Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:35 am

I remember there being issues when
factorio itself is installed in a path containing spaces.

Also it won't start and throw a cryptic message when the install path is non-latin?
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =25&t=7026


As long as underscores(_), dashes(-) and plus(+) are allowed, I'll be fine.
Automatically replacing input spaces with underscores instead of
throwing an error at the user might improve the situation a bit.

User avatar
ssilk
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10469
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by ssilk » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:25 pm

The problem is, that the requester allows to enter these chars. So it would be fine to change the input-field so, that the forbidden chars cannot be used.

I also would recommend to name a world on start. In the World-generator. Cause that would be a useful default filename.

So, I would make an alternative suggestion, to be complete: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=7050
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
Have you used the Advanced Search today?
Need help, question? FAQ - Wiki - Forum help
I still like small signatures...

MF-
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:07 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by MF- » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:58 pm

ssilk wrote:The problem is, that the requester allows to enter these chars. So it would be fine to change the input-field so, that the forbidden chars cannot be used.
+1
A some kind of popup saying which characters are allowed would be needed, though.
(Similar to what windows (used to?) do when renaming a file using the explorer GUI.)

User avatar
Nova
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:13 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Nova » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:44 pm

What the hell? Why do you all want to restrict the input characters??? That makes no sense at all and is a very annoying thing. Why not just allow ANY character? If you really want less characters, just don't write them.
Greetings, Nova.
Factorio is one of the greatest games I ever played, with one of the best developers I ever heard of. Image

LordFedora
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:46 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by LordFedora » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:19 am

Because the save name must be a valid name on every OS factorio will run on, you are already limited the ascii-standard, the other chars you can't type are all because of various OS's saying you can't, that's why you can't have a space in the path, because Windows (i think XP and up fixed it, but it's only "fixed") can't handle strings that have a space in them unless they are surrounded in double quotes, we've been living with these limitations for a while now... where have you been?

The only strange char that might be in-excusable is the space, and that's because of the reason i gave, they must be passing it to a command-line somewhere and haven't escaped it, but allowing ANY char as a filename? no, not going to happen until they choose a specific OS, and even then, you aren't going to get ascii-extended, let alone unicode allowed ANY time soon

User avatar
Nova
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:13 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Nova » Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:32 am

Like I said, just use an encoding. There's only minimal effort needed and if it was done right the save names would still be readable if someone looks for them in the file structure.

Oh, and I forged to mention that with ".foo" about Windows: Just try to rename a file to this. Windows will complain and not allow that. Makes it very annoying if someone uses this kind of name and you can't rename or recreate it.
Greetings, Nova.
Factorio is one of the greatest games I ever played, with one of the best developers I ever heard of. Image

Boogieman14
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Boogieman14 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 am

Nova wrote:What the hell? Why do you all want to restrict the input characters???
Probably because the reality is that restricting characters is still a necessity in a cross-platform world. Encoding adds an extra layer of complexity (which requires extra development and testing effort - on every platform) and makes things less userfriendly (because, yes, many users seem to like to exchange save games, so recognisable names are essential).
I don't have OCD, I have CDO. It's the same, but with the letters in the correct order.

User avatar
Xecutor
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:15 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Xecutor » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:17 am

There is quite easy solution for names with weird characters - store real name inside of the savefile and replace illegal characters with underscores in filename.
In case of duplicate files after replacement - add 01, 02, 03 etc at the end of filename.

Boogieman14
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 761
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:59 pm
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Boogieman14 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:42 am

Which creates a mismatch between what the user sees inside the game and what he has to look for in the filesystem. The underscores aren't so bad, but the added sequence numbers make things confusing. The more I read and think about possible alternatives, the more I realise the solution the devs have picked may actually be the best way (with possibly a few extra allowed characters)
I don't have OCD, I have CDO. It's the same, but with the letters in the correct order.

User avatar
Nova
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:13 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Nova » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:34 pm

Boogieman14 wrote:Encoding adds an extra layer of complexity (which requires extra development and testing effort - on every platform)
Come on, that's not even one day of work. And the code should be independend of the plattform. I don't talk about only encoding the specific character per plattform, but every character which has a problem on one plattform or another.
Boogieman14 wrote:makes things less userfriendly (because, yes, many users seem to like to exchange save games, so recognisable names are essential).
They could just use names without specials chars then?
Greetings, Nova.
Factorio is one of the greatest games I ever played, with one of the best developers I ever heard of. Image

LordFedora
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:46 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by LordFedora » Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:41 pm

Nova wrote:
Boogieman14 wrote:makes things less userfriendly (because, yes, many users seem to like to exchange save games, so recognisable names are essential).
They could just use names without specials chars then?
hang on... did you just... space is a special char on some platforms... maybe you could just... not use special chars?

User_Name
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 2:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by User_Name » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:12 pm

There is nothing special about space on any platform for the past 15 years or so
Attach your blueprints to forum posts with Foreman or Blueprint string.

LordFedora
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:46 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by LordFedora » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:49 pm

Having spaces in file names causes enough problems that can be avoided entirely by just using what everybody else does, replace them with underscores...

User_Name
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 2:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by User_Name » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:04 pm

LordFedora wrote:Having spaces in file names causes enough problems that can be avoided entirely by just using what everybody else does, replace them with underscores...
I don't know who you mean by "everybody", but Apple and Microsoft use names like "c:\Program Files" and "/Library/Application Support/".
Attach your blueprints to forum posts with Foreman or Blueprint string.

User avatar
Nova
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 921
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:13 am
Contact:

Re: Save game names

Post by Nova » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:54 pm

LordFedora wrote:
Nova wrote:
Boogieman14 wrote:makes things less userfriendly (because, yes, many users seem to like to exchange save games, so recognisable names are essential).
They could just use names without specials chars then?
hang on... did you just... space is a special char on some platforms... maybe you could just... not use special chars?
If you really need to not have any special encoding in the file name, don't use special chars. It would be like it is now: Only letters, numbers and _ and - (or other characters. Don't want to try everything out).

Special characters should be encoded with a system. Whatever, how about +[number of ascii] for everything which can't be used? "test/" would be "test+2f" (2f is the hex rendering of "/" in ASCII. The plus itself would be encoded as "+2b". As far as I know, every file system can use the plus as character. If not, that another character could be used. For UTF8 character we can use more than one byte (two hexadecimal characters). For convenience, we should encode the space as an underscore and the underscore with this system. That would make names with space more readable on file level.
Greetings, Nova.
Factorio is one of the greatest games I ever played, with one of the best developers I ever heard of. Image

Post Reply

Return to “Ideas and Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users