Have robots send items to nearest storage chest

[ohmyfactorio]

TL;DR

Make robots choose the closest storage chest to send items to (deconstructed, trashed, etc.)

What ?

Right now, the robots' choice of storage chest to send items to seems random. I tested by creating a robotic network with only one roboport, placed 4 storage chests on the logistics network area, and trashing 1 unit of various items (copper wire, plastic, steel, coal, etc.).

Then, I picked up all the items from the chests, and tried again, changing the order of items (plastic, steel, coal, copper wire, etc.). The items are being sent to different chests now. HUH?!

This is very confusing and unpredictable behavior.

Why ?

It makes sense to have robots carry things to the nearest storage chest (since this is a game about production and efficiency), and it's more predictable behavior. Right now, if I'm on a large logistic network, and I'm cutting trees on one end, the robots are sending the logs to the other end of the base (I think it's because that's the location where I placed the first storage chest, and cut the first tree with a robot), even though I have one storage chest right in front of me, and with the filter set.

I would like a situation where, I'm deconstructing a small section of the base, the construction bots send the deconstructed items to the nearest chest, the one in front of me, so I can quickly grab the items to design a new setup, rather than run to the other end of the base to collect the items, and run back to the location where I want to build something.

[Darinth]

I know that bots prioritize chests that already have an item in them, but beyond that I've not really noticed a pattern to storage which may honestly be for the best. Spreading out different types of items over different chests reduces the chances of chests filling up which results in the same item type being stored in multiple chests. Strange though it may seem, their apparently random behavior may actually be the best option. Unsure.

[Koub]

Storage chests will be filled with items from active provider chests, from robots that have had their orders cancelled while they were carrying items, and from the player's logistic trash slots.

To place items into storage chests, the bots search for a storage chest that already stores items of the same type, then for one which has its filter set to the item type. If that can't be found, they choose the first storage chest with a free slot from the list, which is sorted by the order they were built in. [1] This is to avoid having storage chests with different items inside, allowing greater organisation.

Distance

When looking to pick up requested items from multiple chests of equal priority, bots will always choose the closest one. [2] This is however only true when an item is being requested, not when an item is sent away. [3] In the case of items being sent into the logistics network distance does not matter, and the rules laid out above matter instead.

Source : https://wiki.factorio.com/Logistic_netw ... _of_robots

[Darinth]

That does not appear to be correct. I believe the lines about finding a chest with matching items and filtering are correct, but there's some other logic in there other than 'pick the first chest from the list with an empty slot', as that logic would result in the first storage chest you put down getting completely filled with items before other chests are used and that doesn't appear to be the case.

[nuhll]

I think i saw somewhere sometime that its so random bc of performance...

[Tekillaa]

Hi, i have sometimes the same issues with bots dont making what i expect them to do, but you got to play with the actual mechanics to make them what you want them to do. For example, for deconstruction in a large logistic area, i prefer first make a "logistic isolation" then i make the deconstruct order with all chest in front of me.

Since i do that way, i got no problem with behaviour/choices for basic action. just think with compartimentation.

And with buffer chest now, its easy to make them clean up the mess in your pocket when you come back

The dev choices for the robots behaviour are for me logic, and dont need (to my point of view) so many change about that : if they change for what you say, for other reason it will be harder for the player to clean up chest after, because choose the nearest chest at all cost is not always the best solution. Actually its the roboport itself that is giving me a lot of troubles, truely.

[torne]

That does not appear to be correct. I believe the lines about finding a chest with matching items and filtering are correct, but there's some other logic in there other than 'pick the first chest from the list with an empty slot', as that logic would result in the first storage chest you put down getting completely filled with items before other chests are used and that doesn't appear to be the case.

I believe they also prefer empty chests over chests that contain only things different to the current item. The overall effect of the rules is that the robots aim to keep storage chests sorted by item type, and if you have enough storage chests to allow for it, they will *never* mix types of items.

[Avacado]

I posted this as a bug, but got closed as "Not a bug" without a response from the developers, so I'm here.

Bots should favor storage chests with filters over storage chests without because the player has explicitly stated that is where they want the item. Right now, bots will favor a storage chest with items and no filter over a storage chest with a filter and no items (at least it always did in my testing... maybe it'll still sometimes pick the storage chest with the filter? I could never get it to do that).

The wiki says that storage chests work the way I want them to, but they don't. The wiki lies. IT LIES. The wiki says:

To place items into storage chests, the bots search for a storage chest which has its filter set to the item type, then for one that already stores items of the same type.

Which is the behavior I would like and most people would expect, but isn't what we're getting.

Like if I have a mall setup where items output to a filtered storage chest, if ever the items overflow and end up going into a different storage chest, than that new chest can become the priority location for that item.

Here is the reddit discussion that first brought my attention to this issue. As you can see the current state is an undesirable and unexpected behavior.

[Tekillaa]

hi, i think the feature is already in it, it's most the "behaviour flow chart order" who got to be corrected if i understand your problem? I dont just use chest with filter for store where i want a mats, but a chest requesting it actually. but i can do it because i use no bots in my line of production.

Maybe you got to clean up all chest before with the mats you desire put a filter : take a requester when you set it time to take everything left in other chest then make filter for makin work great? i guess? with the actual behaviour i dont see other ways

For example, for the wood in my large logistic area, to avoid to have wood in one chest in the center of my mall, i put first all my wood in steel chest, out of logistic, then in my large logistic area, after that, when i go make construction, i use a blue chest requesting woods just near to the construction site to avoid longe range travel for construction bot.

an other way to do it is compartimentation time to make what you desire.

[Avacado]

hi, i think the feature is already in it, it's most the "behaviour flow chart order" who got to be corrected if i understand your problem? I

Yes, the game and the wiki don't match, but the reason why I'm not complaining about the wiki, is that is the behavior I would like bots to have. The behavior I want is exactly the one outlined by the wiki.

Maybe you got to clean up all chest before with the mats you desire put a filter : take a requester when you set it time to take everything left in other chest then make filter for makin work great? i guess? with the actual behaviour i dont see other ways

There is no one-time fix for this. You would potentially have to fix it every time the filtered storage chest caps out and other chests start to fill up with that item. I suppose you could also set it up differently from the start, like using buffer chests or more convoluted designs with requester and provider chests, but I really just want it to work the way the wiki specifies.

If it worked just slightly differently as the wiki specifies, I wouldn't have to fix it. Also, that could mean that buffer chests could extract from it (which is why I don't want to use buffer chests as the solution either).

Filtered storage chests are great to use for mall outputs. Trashed items would just go back to where they came from in the mall. I didn't quite follow everything with the steel chests, etc, but with the wiki behavior I could simply do a filtered storage chest for each mall output.

On top of that, the current behavior seems unexpected and undesirable, so it seems like something that should be fixed.

[Tekillaa]

The actual order observed from a user :

"Re: Help me understand storage chest priority

Post by DaveMcW » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:29 am
1. Storage chests with a matching inventory
2. Storage chests with a matching filter
3. Storage chests with no filter and no inventory
4. Storage chests with no filter and a mismatched inventory

Bots really don't like putting mismatched items together, which makes your single storage chest strategy ineffective.
Last edited by DaveMcW on Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tech Tree"

So you want to invert 1 and 2?

maybe it can help

[Avacado]

Yes, exactly. That states it with more clarity than I did. Yes, I would like 1 and 2 to be switched. Which is how the wiki seems to be describing it.

I think it only make sense for 2 to be first because that is a players explicit configuration. And for all purposes I can think of 1 and 2 being switched seems better.

Plus that way, you'd have all the non-filtered priorities right next to each other, so the priorities are simpler to describe and are more intuitive.

[Koub]

[Koub] Merged topics with same suggestion.

[Avacado]

Hi Koub,

I'm not sure if you meant to merge to different suggestions on a the same topic, but my suggestion was:

* Prioritize dropping in storage chests with filtered storage chests first.

And this suggestion is:

* Have robots send items to the nearest storage chest

They both have to do with storage chest priority though.

[Serenity]

I just deconstructed some assembly lines with full belts. Placed storage chests next to them to store the stuff. They weren't used

[ohmyfactorio]

So, let's assume I created my first storage chest and my first roboport at the north end of my base. I deconstructed a few things (belts, trees, assemblers, inserters, iron plates, copper plates, and coal) and made the mistake of leaving those items in the storage chest while I build my base further south.

Let's say, I've managed to build 10 roboport logistic squares, all logistically connected, down further south, and place a second storage chest, and deconstruct a small section that includes belts, trees, assemblers, inserters, iron plates, copper plates, and coal. My understanding is, they will all be carried to the box in the north, as rule number 1 is "Storage chests with a matching inventory".

In the spirit of the "seek first to understand" philosophy, how is this helpful? What was the intention of this?

[Avacado]

Yes. They would be carried north. The point is to help keep your base organized, so all your belt storage is in one place instead of being spread out to storage chests all over the map.

It also stores more efficiently. A box with 1 belt or 50 belts still uses a full storage slot. Having everything scattered would use a lot of unnecessary slots.

[Koub]

Hi Koub,

I'm not sure if you meant to merge to different suggestions on a the same topic, but my suggestion was:

* Prioritize dropping in storage chests with filtered storage chests first.

And this suggestion is:

* Have robots send items to the nearest storage chest

They both have to do with storage chest priority though.

Yeah my wording could have been better : both suggestions are the two sides of the same coin. We can suggest that bots priorize either filters or proximity, but not both at the same time. I thought the debate would be more readable if it was all into the same topic.

[ohmyfactorio]

Well, I still feel proximity should be a priority, as it's more intuitive to plonk a chest in front of oneself and expect that the bots to fill it up. Also, it's almost impossible for one to remember where they placed storage chests in different parts of a large base after hours of gameplay. Eventually, one would have to go bot-tailing and chest-hunting to find out where that rogue green circuit or that conveyor-belt is being brought to.

When it's proximity, it's also the easiest to remember, and think about, most predictable, and easiest to use. There's only one rule: The storage chest gets filled by bots closest to it, prioritizing filters.

Thus, if you have a box with a wooden log filter at the other end of the base, and one in front of the current roboport, new stuff will be sent to the new storage chest, and all logs will be sent to the chest at the other end of the base. But, if two new chests were build next to each other, and one has a wooden log filter too, then, bots should send logs to the nearest filtered chest (filtered proximity taking priority), and everything else to the other chest, as they're both closest.

Right now, there are four rules to think about:
1. Storage chests with a matching inventory
2. Storage chests with a matching filter (I agree with Avacado. This being no. 2 is counter-intuitive. It leads to a lot of head scratching. When I go through the trouble to set a filter, I expect it to be obeyed as a priority.)
3. Storage chests with no filter and no inventory
4. Storage chests with no filter and a mismatched inventory

From normal gameplay, when we build a chest, we usually want to have it used immediately, have inserters fill it up, and create a buffer of things, etc. I personally don't wanna keep track of where I placed my storage chests, and in what order. Those 4 rules require a lot of memory work of where the previous storage chests are placed, and what was in them.

Eventually, to follow the rules, the bots will inevitably have to fly a far way off, because earlier chests are usually built a distance away from the current location where one is building new structures, a natural thing to happen after hours of gameplay. Older chests will always, ALWAYS, be far away, making their use rather impractical, when all you want are some wooden logs to make electric poles, right here, right now.

Also, we have the issue of unpredictability. Let's say you have 4 empty storage chests at different corners of your very large base with no filters set. You deconstruct a small section with 6 different items (belts, inserters, assembers, iron plates, copper plates, and electric pole). Do you know where the belts are gonna end up? Where the assemblers are gonna go to? Where do you get the electric poles? If you wanna get all the stuff back, you'll have to go visit all 4 storage chests. That's if you remember where you put them. Then you gotta wait for the bots to come back to continue building.

But, if it's proximity, all you gotta do is make sure you have a box closest to the section you're deconstructing, and you can just pick them all up once the bots filled it. Et voila! Predictable!

[Zavian]

Also, it's almost impossible for one to remember where they placed storage chests in different parts of a large base after hours of gameplay. Eventually, one would have to go bot-tailing and chest-hunting to find out where that rogue green circuit or that conveyor-belt is being brought to.

The solution to that is to have one central storage area for each logistics network. Once you do that, then the existing rules make more sense than proximity.

Proximity would have the downside of players ending up with multiple chest with partial stacks of items, which leads to their chests suddenly have no spare slots for any new items, so they build more chests, which means that for some areas of the factory the closest chest has now changed, so they get even more partial stacks, and hence build even more chests. It would be a problem to try to consolidate all those partial stacks, since you couldn't even force consolidation by placing new storage chests, and deconstructing some of the old chests. The existing rules effectively avoid partial stacks as much as practical.