Default Train waiting condition for the new temporary Station

[Pin-Lui]

Hello!

I use the new feature a lot but I Dislike the default train condition for temporary stations (5 Sec).
If we could change the default Train waiting condition to circuit conditon > 0 The train should wait at the temporary station
I use this waiting conditions on my PAX trains and it allows me to just leave the train without manually switching to manual


why would i change this? First time driving to a T.Station i got overrun and died after leaving the train. The other few times the train just departed and left me alone at the outpost. 5 sec to switch to manual is not enough if you watch netflix or youtube while playing XD

[Mimp]

Came to suggest this. I'd love to be able to have a UI that mimics the train schedule and be able to set a normal group of conditions that would always apply by default. I like the combination of wait until:

* 30 seconds have passed
* Passenger present

This gives me time to exit the train and it'll sit until I hop back in it...

As is, I almost always change the condition while the train is in transit; when I don't it's usually because I forgot, didn't have time or it was just a mistake filled with immediate regret. Allowing us to specify our own custom conditions that would be used by default would be a real time saver.

[Koub]

I'd rather have my temporary train automatically switching to manual and waiting for me to switch it back manually to automatic when I don't need it any more.

[SkiCarver]

Would a train automatic/manual hotkey be a better solution?

[Chao]

Or even just have a place to set the default waiting condition, with "switch to manual" being an option. Then everyone can tailor to their preferences.

[sepharim]

I would like the idea of a configureable condition. I would like to have it at "30 seconds" + "passenger present". If i had hijacked another train, i would simply delete the passenger present, and the train proceeds with its tasks.

At the moment i try to always add "passenger present", but forget it about 60% of the time

[Amarula]

I would like the idea of a configureable condition.

I agree, having the regular train conditions as well as the option of switching to manual would be great!

[mrvn]

I'd rather have my temporary train automatically switching to manual and waiting for me to switch it back manually to automatic when I don't need it any more.

I think the train should switch back to the mode it was before the temporary stop was added.

If you are in a manual train and add a temporary stop then you want the train back on manual after it arrived too. But if you divert an automatic train then it should return to the automatic schedule.


The default waiting condition is really bad. Point in case when you send an artillery train to a temporary stop it will go there, the artillery will start targeting and after 5s it stops even if the train is then stuck with no schedule. It would be better to have "Inactivity >5s" because then the train would wait till all aliens are shot dead. Same with a refuel stop. Now it goes there, gets a few coal and drives away. It should stay till fully fueled. And so on.

So even if you don't add something more elaborate please consider switching to "Inactivity >5s" as default.

[urza99814]

What if there was no default condition at all, so that by default it only routes the train instead of stopping it entirely?

Personally, when I use temporary stops I usually don't want the train to stop at all. I might be moving it away from an incoming biter swarm; I might be directing it towards a particular one of multiple stops with the same name; I might be throwing it off course briefly to ensure a different train arrives first (ie, making sure the steam train reaches an outpost before the artillery train) or I might need to get around my base and want to jump on or off as the train speeds by. I don't want it to stop, I just want to force it to take a particular route. I'll often even delete the temporary stop before reaching it.

And if I DO want it to wait around to take me back after the stop...I need more than five seconds. So I'll either insert a few stops to make it run in circles or I'll add a new wait condition.

Typically I remove the conditions entirely, and when I DO want conditions the default is never sufficient anyway. So just default to no conditions and if you want it to stop you can add the appropriate conditions when you add the stop itself, since you're already in the scheduling window...

[mrvn]

But then the train wouldn't stop at all. So you can't send an artillery train somewhere or send a train to refuel, load or unload without extra steps. And jumping on a moving train at 300km/h isn't that easy.

On the other hand if you just want to take a ride somewhere and hop off then having the train stop for 5s hardly hurts.

[csduff]

I would like the idea of a configureable condition. I would like to have it at "30 seconds" + "passenger present". If i had hijacked another train, i would simply delete the passenger present, and the train proceeds with its tasks.

At the moment i try to always add "passenger present", but forget it about 60% of the time

I usually remember to put passenger present, but I forget to change it to AND, so it either leaves me after 5s if I jump of early, or takes off immediately after stopping.

For sure, I am a fan of configurable settings. It would be nice if there was also a globally configurable default, and a train specific default. E.g., for any normal train, you likely don't even need it to stop, so no wait condition, but for a personal transport train you likely want it to wait for you to board, so inactivity (5s) and passenger present, or some such.

[urza99814]

But then the train wouldn't stop at all. So you can't send an artillery train somewhere or send a train to refuel, load or unload without extra steps. And jumping on a moving train at 300km/h isn't that easy.

On the other hand if you just want to take a ride somewhere and hop off then having the train stop for 5s hardly hurts.

Right...but you can't do any of those things right now either. Other than jumping on perhaps, although I regularly hop into moving 1-1-1 trains running on nuclear fuel, so unless you've got some mods I don't see how you could get a train that's too fast for that. (And I don't really think changes to vanilla should be designed for mods... Design the mod to fit the game instead.)

If there's no default condition, then if you want to do any of those things, you add the conditions -- just like you already do. Except with no default conditions you could skip the extra steps of either removing that default or changing the OR to AND. So it's still an improvement.

And don't underestimate the effects of slowing down, stopping for five seconds, and speeding back up again... On a congested track in the middle of your base (which is likely to be a frequent stop, since that's where everything is,) those delays can add up fast. So removing the delay has some benefit there as well.

But essentially... there's no situation in which the defaults work well. IMO, a simple no condition "waypoint mode" is more than 90% of my uses of temporary stops, so I'd much prefer that being default...but more importantly, making that the default also still makes things easier for everyone else by at least removing one step. Any other defaults make things worse for any case where you don't want it to stop.

As far as I can tell, no conditions by default is the only change that makes *every* possible use case at least a little bit easier.

[mrvn]

But then the train wouldn't stop at all. So you can't send an artillery train somewhere or send a train to refuel, load or unload without extra steps. And jumping on a moving train at 300km/h isn't that easy.

On the other hand if you just want to take a ride somewhere and hop off then having the train stop for 5s hardly hurts.

Right...but you can't do any of those things right now either. Other than jumping on perhaps, although I regularly hop into moving 1-1-1 trains running on nuclear fuel, so unless you've got some mods I don't see how you could get a train that's too fast for that. (And I don't really think changes to vanilla should be designed for mods... Design the mod to fit the game instead.)

If there's no default condition, then if you want to do any of those things, you add the conditions -- just like you already do. Except with no default conditions you could skip the extra steps of either removing that default or changing the OR to AND. So it's still an improvement.

And don't underestimate the effects of slowing down, stopping for five seconds, and speeding back up again... On a congested track in the middle of your base (which is likely to be a frequent stop, since that's where everything is,) those delays can add up fast. So removing the delay has some benefit there as well.

But essentially... there's no situation in which the defaults work well. IMO, a simple no condition "waypoint mode" is more than 90% of my uses of temporary stops, so I'd much prefer that being default...but more importantly, making that the default also still makes things easier for everyone else by at least removing one step. Any other defaults make things worse for any case where you don't want it to stop.

As far as I can tell, no conditions by default is the only change that makes *every* possible use case at least a little bit easier.

Except hopping on trains, shooting aliens, refueling, unloading, loading, not forgetting to hop off at the right spot, turning the train to manual at the destination so it doesn't leave, ... The only time where I can see waypoint mode as better is on your congested network And if your network can't take a 5s delay then you have other problems.

Note that removing the initial condition is always easier than adding one. It's just one click at the "x". So even if it isn't useful 90% of the time removing it for the other cases can still be easier then adding it for the cases where it is useful.

[Chao]

I would like the idea of a configureable condition. I would like to have it at "30 seconds" + "passenger present". If i had hijacked another train, i would simply delete the passenger present, and the train proceeds with its tasks.

At the moment i try to always add "passenger present", but forget it about 60% of the time

I usually remember to put passenger present, but I forget to change it to AND, so it either leaves me after 5s if I jump of early, or takes off immediately after stopping.

This is me. Every. Damned. Time.

[mrvn]

I would like the idea of a configureable condition. I would like to have it at "30 seconds" + "passenger present". If i had hijacked another train, i would simply delete the passenger present, and the train proceeds with its tasks.

At the moment i try to always add "passenger present", but forget it about 60% of the time

I usually remember to put passenger present, but I forget to change it to AND, so it either leaves me after 5s if I jump of early, or takes off immediately after stopping.

This is me. Every. Damned. Time.

Maybe the default for added conditions should be "and" as well.

[SkiCarver]

I would like the idea of a configureable condition. I would like to have it at "30 seconds" + "passenger present". If i had hijacked another train, i would simply delete the passenger present, and the train proceeds with its tasks.

At the moment i try to always add "passenger present", but forget it about 60% of the time

I usually remember to put passenger present, but I forget to change it to AND, so it either leaves me after 5s if I jump of early, or takes off immediately after stopping.

This is me. Every. Damned. Time.

Maybe the default for added conditions should be "and" as well.

I would prefer it default to manual, but also have a hotkey that can be used to set the train to automatic. Used like 'G' (connect rolling stock), simply hover the cursor over a train, press the hotkey and the auto/manual can be toggled and a message (again like the 'G' key) saying something like - "Automatic mode enabled".

[mrvn]

I would prefer it default to manual, but also have a hotkey that can be used to set the train to automatic. Used like 'G' (connect rolling stock), simply hover the cursor over a train, press the hotkey and the auto/manual can be toggled and a message (again like the 'G' key) saying something like - "Automatic mode enabled".

While not for the temporary stops I would like such a key too. Especially when blueprinting trains. I have a blueprint for an LTN depot with trains. I can place it, the trains get build, they get fuel and everything is ready. Then I have to click at every single train to open the train dialog, set it to automatic and close the dialog. Repeat for next train. Wait, which one is the next train? Did I miss one? The blueprint has all trains at their station so when set to automatic they don't move. No way to tell which train is automatic and which is not. With 16 trains it's hard to keep track.

[Optera]

I would prefer it default to manual, but also have a hotkey that can be used to set the train to automatic. Used like 'G' (connect rolling stock), simply hover the cursor over a train, press the hotkey and the auto/manual can be toggled and a message (again like the 'G' key) saying something like - "Automatic mode enabled".

While not for the temporary stops I would like such a key too. Especially when blueprinting trains. I have a blueprint for an LTN depot with trains. I can place it, the trains get build, they get fuel and everything is ready. Then I have to click at every single train to open the train dialog, set it to automatic and close the dialog. Repeat for next train. Wait, which one is the next train? Did I miss one? The blueprint has all trains at their station so when set to automatic they don't move. No way to tell which train is automatic and which is not. With 16 trains it's hard to keep track.

In LTNT beta Eduran has added an UI to trains to send them to LTN depots quickly.
But workarounds beside, trains should retain their schedule, next stop and automatic setting when being blueprinted.

Back on thread topic,
I'd also like being able to set arbitrary default waiting conditions for temporary stations.
The 30s and player present mentioned before would be sufficient for my use cases.

[csduff]

While not for the temporary stops I would like such a key too.

I'm pretty sure FARL has a hotkey for enable/disable built into it. I used FARL for a while, but I have stopped. Only reason I keep it installed is for this hotkey.

[Tekillaa]

Would a train automatic/manual hotkey be a better solution?

Big +1 for that idea, i was thinking exactly the same during my last session.