Any advanced belt mechanics/tools for later game?

[Dixi]

While I build a base to launch my 1st rocket or several rockets, using belts, it's quite comfortable and good.
But when I'm trying to build a bigger base, I always meet a lot of problems in item distribution using belts. Single blue belt does not provide enough throughput, and balancing 3-4 belts cause unending problems. Building buffers and belt balancers takes too much time and space, since as soon as I "fix" shortage or bad resource flow in one place, I usually have same problem in another place.

Initially I was against excessive drone usage, because I prefer to see items on belts, to see supply/demand.

But now it seems to me, that, as many other players saying, for bigger bases, drone transportation looks like the only reasonable way, since they(drones) do not have everlasting belt balancing problems.

I saw a discussion some time ago about possible drone nerf or some unclear ideas abut better belts/transporters for later game. Any news about it? As I understand, game dev's favor belts, but are they going to add some better way to transport massive amount of items (like ores, base metals, green chips, etc.) on belts?

[Koub]

After extensive discussions in the office and internal testing, we have come to the conclusion that we need more time. This is a delicate topic, and the solution has to be one that walks a fine line within the design of the game. We are moving to work on other features and improvements, some of which are related to the balance of power between belts and robots, but for now it is highly unlikely there will be any changes in 0.16. When the time comes around to look at this topic again, we will keep you informed of any progress.

Source : https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-226

[Hedning1390]

There is really very little problem using belts. It is only a little more effort to build, and when getting really big can be more demanding on your computer. However there isn't ever any *must* involved. Blueprints allow you to place the same balancer over and over and when trains take over most transportation between different types of production you rarely need balancers. Buffers likewise are not a good idea generally. Really only part of train stations (all my train stations use wood chests btw and even that kind of buffer is usually overkill)

For example: Here is input and output to my iron smelters and a close up on a station. This handles exactly 440k plates per minute and as you can see completely without balancers:

[Hannu]

While I build a base to launch my 1st rocket or several rockets, using belts, it's quite comfortable and good.
But when I'm trying to build a bigger base, I always meet a lot of problems in item distribution using belts. Single blue belt does not provide enough throughput, and balancing 3-4 belts cause unending problems. Building buffers and belt balancers takes too much time and space, since as soon as I "fix" shortage or bad resource flow in one place, I usually have same problem in another place.

Most buffers and balancers are futile in Factorio. Players seem to put insane amount of work to get different belts and belt sides transport exactly same number of items. However, it is purely aesthetics or OCD symptom. Technically all used and produced items sums up and in most cases well built system balances itself even different belts would transport different amount of stuff. Now with priority splitters it is easy to build buses which feed needed amount of everything to everywhere.

But now it seems to me, that, as many other players saying, for bigger bases, drone transportation looks like the only reasonable way, since they(drones) do not have everlasting belt balancing problems.

Reason for bot transportation is that after some limit computer can not handle all belts. In my opinion capacity of belts is far more than any reasonable base needs (in decent desktop computer, laptops and other "intelligent" cigarette boxes may be another thing), because megabases are just cloning of stuff instead of thinking new solutions, but of course if you want to see limits you will find them. However, balancing should not be forcing factor. Just forget balancing and minimize buffers and you will probably see that your base works excellently.

[Sir3n]

Initially I was against excessive drone usage, because I prefer to see items on belts, to see supply/demand.

Try Stacking Beltboxes. Basically turns one belt into 5, so instead of running like crazy 20 parallel lanes of iron, you just run 4 instead. Should help somewhat but eventually belts still get outscaled.

EDIT:
This should also help with the balancing problem since the beltboxes also act as something like a single belt balancer. They can output to both sides of the belt. I think by default they output to the right side. Once the right side backs up, it outputs to the left side.

Since one stacked item is equal to 5 regular, if you manage to compress one side of a belt, you essentially have a throughput of 2.5x of the belt. That basically means, you can actually just pull from one side of the belt in your builds and not have to think about balancing.

[Hedning1390]

megabases are just cloning of stuff instead of thinking new solutions

Not even almost true. Basically it works like a fractal. On the base level you have individual buildings, then you have many buildings creating a line, then you have many lines creating a block, then you have many blocks creating a sort of tree or array. Several new logistics problem are introduced at every step in expansion. Lets just take a few examples showing the progression:
-How to get items from one assembler or smelter to another.
-How many assemblers you can fit on a belt. This is about as far as the first rocket base goes, after this we are working towards megabase.
-How to layout your lines so the distances are kept short and your factory don't turn into spaghetti.
-How to get enough throughput for the most efficient 8 per 8 assembler/beacon line without making holes in the line and while allowing the lines to tile one next to the other.
-How to keep the trains flowing and how to distribute your goods evenly so that not all trains stack up at one station while others are left empty.

[Hannu]

Not even almost true. Basically it works like a fractal. On the base level you have individual buildings, then you have many buildings creating a line, then you have many lines creating a block, then you have many blocks creating a sort of tree or array. Several new logistics problem are introduced at every step in expansion. Lets just take a few examples showing the progression:

I referenced to my typical bases, which are not actual megabases but quite large and have to take almost all things you mentioned into account. Largest has processed about 1M iron plates per hour. Upgrading it into megabase would be mainly copying more and larger units and enhancing rail lines from wannabe-quite-realistic style to Factorio optimal style (which I do not like).

-How to get items from one assembler or smelter to another.

This is problem in moderate sized bases too. Difference to megabase is not very qualitative in my opinion.

-How many assemblers you can fit on a belt. This is about as far as the first rocket base goes, after this we are working towards megabase.

I begin this in my starter base. Calculations are same if you have 1 yellow belt or 8 blue belts.

-How to layout your lines so the distances are kept short and your factory don't turn into spaghetti.

This may be problem with suitable mods which give more complex production chains with many waste and side products and their processing chains, but vanilla Factorio logistics are very straightforward from ores through intermediates to final products and should not cause significant problems.

-How to get enough throughput for the most efficient 8 per 8 assembler/beacon line without making holes in the line and while allowing the lines to tile one next to the other.

These have to be planned once and after that is is just cloning of tileable blocks.

-How to keep the trains flowing and how to distribute your goods evenly so that not all trains stack up at one station while others are left empty.

This is needed for large normal bases (100000-1000000 irons per hour) too. When you understand block control system it is relatively easy task. And again, you plan intersections and their placing rules once and then clone them enough.

[Hedning1390]

Yes, the first few things I mentioned are things needed in small bases. The point is that they are different and are only a concern once you reach a specific point in the game. For example drawing 8 belts around is very different logistically from taking just 1 belt. This is when you may start having to think about balancing.

The final thing where you have to figure out trains and multiple stations like also in my picture above is not relevant until you reach megabase. Even your 1M plate per hour is only 23 inserter swings per second and single 8 wagon ore train takes almost 1 minute to be consumed. That's the busiest train station in the base, so pretty much anything works in terms of trains.