Make bullets slower the enemies

[voddan]

The problem

I wish Factorio (handheld) weapons would become gradually less effective when faced with tougher enemies. Unfortunately the current Factorio weapon mechanics makes weapons completely useless when faced with bigger biters.

For example handgun - it will never protect you agains a group of medium biters. Wouldn't it be more fair if instead a clever player could still use a handgun in combat with some maneuvering? That's what I would call a "gradual degradation of usefulness" - the bigger the enemy, the more skill one needs to avoid it (or a pricier weapon). Handgun is just an example of course, same works for the assault rifle, etc.

Suggestion

Damaged enemies should run slower depending on the level of their damage.

How will it improve the game?

If bullet damage slowers Biters down, low-powered weaponry (think handgun) become much more useful.

Imagine running from a horde of mid-sized biters while having only a handgun. Currently there is no point in shooting because even damaged biters will catch and kill you. But with this suggestion you can shoot a biter and keep running, and the biter will slow down and drop from the pursuit. That way with some skill and a minimum of ammunition one can save themselves from any horde.

Disclamer

This is NOT about making hunting easier. Neither it is about making weapons more powerful. If anything, I believe this change would be best accompanied with making the biters tougher (but that is a separate discussion).

Possible variations

Should the player slow down if damaged? Should different damage (bullets, fire, acid) slow down enemies differently? Should damaged cars run slower? Should damaged buildings produce less? How will that mechanics affect PVP?

[Tekky]

Yes, I agree that a Rimworld style damage system for the player would be nice. For example, the player moves slower if his legs are hurt. It would also be nice if the same would also apply to enemies, however, I am not sure if it would have a negative performance impact if the game had to keep track of the health of individual parts of every biter.

Also, I believe that enemies that are being fired upon should not only move slower due to damage, but also due to knockback. With a machine gun, knockback would simply make the enemies slower, and with slow-firing weapons such as rockets, knockback would be a large amount, but not as often, only when the enemy gets hit by the weapon.

The amount of knockback should depend on several factors, such as armor penetration (if bullets don't even penetrate the armor then there should be little to no knockback).

[bobucles]

Factorio has a very tier oriented system to its combat. In that respect it's okay for the pistol to find itself obsolete in the face of new tech. But I do think the pistol should be an ingredient in the smg. After all a SMG is basically a hot rodded pistol, at least when you do it right. That way a pistol can be upgraded out of players inventories.

tacticool pistol2.jpg (154.85 KiB) Viewed 3882 times

[voddan]

Factorio has a very tier oriented system to its combat. In that respect it's okay for the pistol to find itself obsolete in the face of new tech. But I do think the pistol should be an ingredient in the smg. After all a SMG is basically a hot rodded pistol, at least when you do it right. That way a pistol can be upgraded out of players inventories.

This is less about the pistol and more about the combat mechanics. Same story happens with a machine gun and bigger aliens. So no mater what weapon you are using, it offers little or no help when faced with big enough enemies.

[dood]

Factorio has a very tier oriented system to its combat. In that respect it's okay for the pistol to find itself obsolete in the face of new tech. But I do think the pistol should be an ingredient in the smg. After all a SMG is basically a hot rodded pistol, at least when you do it right. That way a pistol can be upgraded out of players inventories.

This is less about the pistol and more about the combat mechanics. Same story happens with a machine gun and bigger aliens. So no mater what weapon you are using, it offers little or no help when faced with big enough enemies.

If you're chased by a big enemy horde, how would slowing down individual enemies help?

[voddan]

If you're chased by a big enemy horde, how would slowing down individual enemies help?

Say this mechanics is implemented and I am chased by 10 biters. I shoot a bit and keep running. The fastest biter which was closest to me takes the hits and start slowing down. When it falls behind enough I shoot again and wound the next fastest biter. Repeating that 8 more times, I have all 10 biters are wounded and can outrun them all.

Compare that to a typical chaise when you wound the leading biter (firing on auto), but all others biters are OK and still kill you.

[bobucles]

Firing any weapon slows you down. What you want is an AoE slow weapon. The flamethrower has a small slowing effect, but you actually want slowdown capsules. Those already exist. Try them.

Personally I find snaring effects pretty useless. The default run speed already takes very little damage when fleeing biters and a few fish will keep you alive to reach the turret line. If you don't have nearby turrets and are fighting deep in enemy territory... you kinda deserve to die.

[voddan]

you actually want slowdown capsules. Those already exist. Try them.

This is very nice of you to tell me what I actually want, thank you. FYI I am familiar with all the military arsenal in Factorio and some mods above that.

What I want is what is written in the topic - a realistic mechanics which makes even small damage (bullet wounds) tactically meaningful (slowing down) which can be used in specific situations (avoiding pursuit).

[orzelek]

I think you could try to mod this in to see how it works.
You'd need to figure out how to get normal shots to apply tickers that can pushback enemies. Discharge defense has that I think.

[PyroFire]

The game is easy enough without this.
Just rush the Military 1 research, and you won't need the handgun.

If the SMG isn't enough, then try the flamethrower or grenades.
Basically, upgrade your gear as the biters get stronger.
This is a rather natural progression.

Also mind you, the Heavy Armor reduces incoming damage in the early game to be almost completely negligible.
Mid to late game, if you don't have shields equipped, you're doing something wrong and deserve to be killed by biters.

All else fails, nukes.
And by end-game, the hordes that chase you get so large that you couldn't hope to shoot them all down without using AoE weapons.

Combat doesn't need to be easier.

If anything, give the player extra movement speed options so i don't have to spend the next 75% of my playtime on my 200+ hour map exclusively clearing out biter nests before i can expand.

[thereaverofdarkness]

How will it improve the game?

If bullet damage slowers Biters down, low-powered weaponry (think handgun) become much more useful.

Imagine running from a horde of mid-sized biters while having only a handgun. Currently there is no point in shooting because even damaged biters will catch and kill you.

If bullet damage slows biters down, high powered weaponry will also become much more useful. You should consider how it will impact all things, not just the pistol, and include this in your original post. One result I see from this is that strafing and kiting maneuvers on foot become much more viable.

As for shooting biters with the handgun, you simply need to consider your target as part of your strategy. I have made deliberate attacks on biter nests armed with only a pistol, and successfully killed all biters and destroyed the spawner(s). I've only done that with small biters. It would probably be suicide with mediums.

[bobucles]

I have a lot of success using land mines as a way of slowing biters. Plant them in front of you and they will be ready by the time that biters catch up behind you. The explosion stuns biters, which turn a flaky escape into a guaranteed one.

Land mines are pretty awesome. They're cheap, hit like a train and are easy to use even in the thick of combat. I definitely recommend them to everyone.

[voddan]

I have made deliberate attacks on biter nests armed with only a pistol, and successfully killed all biters and destroyed the spawner(s). I've only done that with small biters. It would probably be suicide with mediums.

Quite right. Small biters - OK, medium biters - suicide. Same for an assault weapon with yellow amo: medium biters are Ok, bigger biters are a suicide. Don't you find it ridiculous? IRL a (hypothetical) gun slinger can best a group of heavily armored enemies in no small part because every wound slows an enemy down and interferes with their maneuvers.

I've edited the topic with some clarifications BTW.

[thereaverofdarkness]

I'd like to see more iteration on combat mechanics, so I partially support this.