Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by Ingvar »

Being able to mark an area in a blueprint, which would be replaced or cleared would be nice too. If for example you want to replace a straight rail with a "T", you may want to remove rail signals which end up in the middle of the "T", and thus messing things up.
I like the idea of a "blueprints mode" dialogue where one could toggle these options on/off, unless it can easily be done with hotkeys.
But the most important feature would be the option to remove anything in the way for the new blueprint, while preserving or updating (i.e. recipes and settings) anything which remains in the same spot.
I really think this should move from a years long suggestion in the forum to a todo-list. As a developer myself, I see no reason why this wouldn't be easy to implement.

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by Impatient »

That also is a good usecase Ingvar. +1

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by blazespinnaker »

Mines are my biggest bugaboo. I'll put out mines and then have to manually erase them when I want to put over a new blueprint. :(
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by blazespinnaker »

Oh yeah, doing rocket rush now. This is actually almost(*) necessary, as you have to evolve the layout over time with successive blueprints and fiddling with manual changes is something you want to avoid for the sake of time. eg: adding a splitter to branch off coal (or whatever). You can't really prebuild this stuff as you're rather limited by what you have out of the gate (building a mall is the first task blueprint applied)

You can do it with a deconstruction planner, but you'll need to remember everywhere you're making changes rather than having that in the blueprint. Or, I suppose, just knock out everything of a certain type being replaced and get the bots to recreate, but that's not ideal.

Another approach is building separately for everything, but that is not very space efficient.

Right now I am using inserters to branch off coal. :p
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Question: how to best advocate for a feature

Post by blazespinnaker »

It wasn't my suggestion, but there's actually a feature I'd dearly love in factorio.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59554 "Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint"

It really would be a game changer in terms of the scenarios wave defense / rocket rush which I very much enjoy.

Is there any reasonable etiquette / method to help advocate for a feature? Maybe some kind of "if you could have one feature, what would it be" thread?
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by Koub »

[Koub] Merged last post into existing suggestion thread. Best way to add one's voice to a suggestion is to express oneself on the existing thread.
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by blazespinnaker »

Fair enough ;)
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by Arctomachine »

With the end of development being announced today, this seemingly easy to develop, but undoubtedly useful feature is left untouched. Will it be lost forever now, unless some modders decide to implement it?

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by NotRexButCaesar »

Arctomachine wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:50 pm
With the end of development being announced today, this seemingly easy to develop, but undoubtedly useful feature is left untouched. Will it be lost forever now, unless some modders decide to implement it?
I don't believe it was not implemented for its difficulty, but for the possibility of breaking things in a way the player cannot easily diagnose. It is better to use a deconstruction planner and have no chance of accidental breakage than to over write something and possible leave things that will break it
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by Arctomachine »

AmericanPatriot wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:07 pm
Arctomachine wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:50 pm
With the end of development being announced today, this seemingly easy to develop, but undoubtedly useful feature is left untouched. Will it be lost forever now, unless some modders decide to implement it?
I don't believe it was not implemented for its difficulty, but for the possibility of breaking things in a way the player cannot easily diagnose. It is better to use a deconstruction planner and have no chance of accidental breakage than to over write something and possible leave things that will break it
What you say makes sense, but it is true for minor and/or linear tasks. Imagine a situation where you have to do it for a large tiling blueprint.
First you place a blueprint many times where it should be. Next you put on a deconstruction planner and manually select one of multiple elements in as many tiles as in step before. Next you put on the same blueprint again and fill the gaps again as many times. So basically you do the same operation at least 3 times (more, if you need to replace few things in one tile).
And with hotkey/checkbox/toggle you simply draw a blueprint over the desired area, doing only 1 step instead of 3+.

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by Ingvar »

AmericanPatriot wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:07 pm
Arctomachine wrote:
Fri Feb 05, 2021 4:50 pm
With the end of development being announced today, this seemingly easy to develop, but undoubtedly useful feature is left untouched. Will it be lost forever now, unless some modders decide to implement it?
I don't believe it was not implemented for its difficulty, but for the possibility of breaking things in a way the player cannot easily diagnose. It is better to use a deconstruction planner and have no chance of accidental breakage than to over write something and possible leave things that will break it
Nope. Just press Ctrl-Z, if you make a mistake.

Another annoying thing is that if you want to update a blueprint, and use a deconstruction planner to remove everything and then place the updated blueprint on top of the deconstruction (with i.e. small changes and updates), the pieces which are identical in all ways will still remain marked for deconstruction. So if you have 1000 things and 4 changes, all 1000 must go and be replaced by 996+4. By first solving this, it would be very easy to implement the suggestions in this thread, as it would simply be both operations at the same time.

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by blazespinnaker »

OK well, let's do this as a mod I guess. I think it should be fairly easy, Ill take a stab.

It should be in vanilla, would dearly love to know why it's not.

The other one is using shift-copy-past to replace modules but can live without that one as constantly annoying as it is.


edit: hmm not sure if we have API access to bot queue. Need to deconstruct the replaced entities.
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by blazespinnaker »

Looked into this. Doable, but very hacky as you can't get bp orientation.

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=47087&start=80#p324060
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by bend.n »

+1

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by blazespinnaker »

Given the traffic and how obvious the feature is, it'd be nice at least to get feedback as to why it wasn't implemented.
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by ssilk »

I can tell you: wasn’t implemented, because it takes time to be implemented, but there is a limited amount of resources (developers).

The right question is: why is the priority of this so low, that it isn’t implemented yet.

Answer: look into the suggestions board. :)
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by Ingvar »

The suggestion board only has 91 topics today. As a software developer myself, this seems low and easily manageable. I won't say all 91 are easily implemented, but cannot see why this one should be any problem, or why it hasn't been added. As stated before, it is a "seemingly easy to develop, but undoubtedly useful feature". I cannot see why it hasn't been implemented or even given an overdue response. The developers are famous for making the game more automatic and efficient to play, making it more fun. I would think this suggestion is right up their ally.

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by ssilk »

Ingvar wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 7:29 am
The suggestion board only has 91 topics today.
I don’t know where you look, but I see 349 pages with 25 topics on each page. viewforum.php?f=6
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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by Ingvar »

Frequently suggested says 91 topics. Don't include Implemented or Outdated.

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Re: Hotkey to replace existing structures with blueprint

Post by ssilk »

Ahhh. :)

The frequently suggested is a) not a list of threads, that will be implemented somehow, they are just a list of more or less frequently suggested stuff and b) more or less outdated. And you misunderstand the usage, because they always contain lists of suggestions, that are more or less related with that subject, sometimes hundred other subjects.

In any way: I guarantee you, there is work for a team of Factorio developers, double the size as yet for the next 10 years or so, if they want to implement all suggestions. And it never ends. :D


Why is it outdated? Looking back, it had some pros and cons to make it like so.

I think I begun with that in 2015/2016, when the success of Factorio suddenly increased the number of suggestions in a way, that was not longer handleable. At that point the lists helped me to keep track of more general ideas. In some cases I was able to form clearer visions out of the sum of suggestions. In most other cases it was just a container for related subjects. It was for that time really helpful and it really helped to find things faster.

2018/2019 I quit my webmaster job, because 0.17 came out (sometimes more than 25 new threads per day) and my work changed to a project in a way, that I was mentally not longer able to follow that mass of work.

Since end of 2019 I regularly moderate again. And I stopped to maintain that f.s. board. The better way was to merge articles or just add links to related stuff.

The nice lists of that time where now a burden, because the game changed in a way, that some linked subjects where already implemented, some made no sense anymore, because the game did turn into another direction. And so on. It would take days to clear one thread/list and that would mean to write new lists instead of maintaining the old ones.

Last year I tried to look over the subjects and was able to move some to implemented. But that needs continuous work and time is something I currently don’t have. It really takes serious amounts of time to look at one of those threads and more time to look into the linked articles.

Luckily ickputzdirwech is helping now out to maintain this boards a bit better, but cleaning up all that chaos is nothing, that can be done in some days. :)

Hm. But you showed me one thing: I point in some articles to the frequently suggested board in a way, that it eventually can lead to this misunderstanding. I will try to update them.
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