Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post your ideas and suggestions how to improve the game.
Post Reply
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:26 pm

TL;DR
When placing a blueprint with shift or a ghost over water the game should add ghosts for landfill automatically.
What ?
The subject really says it all: When placing a blueprint with shift, a ghost or even a real entity over water the game should add landfill automatically. With the new way land/water is handled in 0.16 the old landfill bugs have been solved so there is no reason not to place landfill or have construction bots place landfill.
Why ?
Making blueprints as building blocks for a modular factory is fun. But often when later placing the blueprint there are trees, rocks and water in the way. Pressing shift will mark trees and rocks for deconstruction so that is fine. But water means only parts of the blueprint will be placed. One has to run around and landfill the area before placing the blueprint.

And how much landfill do you need to do? Where does the blueprint end? Where will the blueprint have entities and where can you leave water? Even more importantly where will the offshore pump end up that requires water? God forbid you landfill that tile and the whole factory module won't work anymore.

Running around to place landfill where needed and not where water is required is tiresome. Building a land bridge for train tracks with properly properly spaced islands for signals, power poles and radars or landfilling for curves becomes torment.

Note: With waterfill mod the blueprint should also place waterfill under offshore pumps as needed.

User avatar
impetus maximus
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:07 pm
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by impetus maximus » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:45 pm

i forget what versions, but blueprint landfil was an unintended thing at one time.
it being unintended, it was removed. i don't see it coming back.

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:52 pm

It was broken because water always had to be 2x2 tiles large. Placing a single tile of landfill then had to fix up the map that would either add additional landfills (for free) or sometimes waterfill a tile to get back 2x2 tile large water holes. With blueprinted landfill the random order in which bots place landfill would trigger this bug all the time making it more trouble than it is worth.

But the new beaches in 0.16 avoid this problems so there is no technical reason landfill can't be blueprinted again.

Note: Works fine with mods that enable landfill blueprinting again.

User avatar
eradicator
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2604
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:03 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by eradicator » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:59 pm

+1
Placing landfill is one of the few things that can't be automated.
mrvn wrote:Note: Works fine with mods that enable landfill blueprinting again.
Examples?

PacifyerGrey
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 990
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:02 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by PacifyerGrey » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:07 am

Automated landfill was removed as it was considered a cheat allowing player to create fully isolated islands. I suppose this is not coming back as well as "waterfill" for the same reason.

Water was never 2x2 but to simplify water edges draw it had a smoothing algorithm which was exploited by players allowing super savings on landfill items. Now this is effectively gone as devs implemented other algorithm of water edges drawing which allows drawing of any water configuration.

Problem with landfill is it is not a paving (unlike stone/concrete) and it replaces the core tile itself. It can not be effectively blueprinted as you can't select core tiles as it makes no sense. I am sure devs have just removed this functionality for good. And I am strongly against of automatic landfill placement under blueprints as it poses quite a few issues such as what tiles exactly should be landfilled? Ones occupied by entities or the whole rectangle?

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:26 am

eradicator wrote:+1
Placing landfill is one of the few things that can't be automated.
mrvn wrote:Note: Works fine with mods that enable landfill blueprinting again.
Examples?
I have Landfill Painting, BlueBuild2 and Bot Landfill installed. Not sure if the last is even needed or if Landfill Painting already enables landfill ghosts.

User avatar
<NO_NAME>
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:52 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by <NO_NAME> » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:31 am

PacifyerGrey wrote:Automated landfill was removed as it was considered a cheat allowing player to create fully isolated islands. I suppose this is not coming back as well as "waterfill" for the same reason.
You can make an isolated island manually without any problems. I doubt that automated landfill wouldn't help with that significantly enough to change player behavior.
PacifyerGrey wrote:Problem with landfill is it is not a paving (unlike stone/concrete) and it replaces the core tile itself. It can not be effectively blueprinted as you can't select core tiles as it makes no sense. I am sure devs have just removed this functionality for good. And I am strongly against of automatic landfill placement under blueprints as it poses quite a few issues such as what tiles exactly should be landfilled? Ones occupied by entities or the whole rectangle?
Easy. It should replace only the tiles that are occupied by entities, just like it works with trees and stones. It would also solved the first problem, because it would be inconvenient to use to create islands. It would be helpful rather in situation when you have a small water path on the area where you're placing blueprint.
I am a translator. And what you did for Factorio?
Check out my mod "Realistic Ores" and my other mods!

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:04 pm

<NO_NAME> wrote:
PacifyerGrey wrote:Automated landfill was removed as it was considered a cheat allowing player to create fully isolated islands. I suppose this is not coming back as well as "waterfill" for the same reason.
You can make an isolated island manually without any problems. I doubt that automated landfill wouldn't help with that significantly enough to change player behavior.
PacifyerGrey wrote:Problem with landfill is it is not a paving (unlike stone/concrete) and it replaces the core tile itself. It can not be effectively blueprinted as you can't select core tiles as it makes no sense. I am sure devs have just removed this functionality for good. And I am strongly against of automatic landfill placement under blueprints as it poses quite a few issues such as what tiles exactly should be landfilled? Ones occupied by entities or the whole rectangle?
Easy. It should replace only the tiles that are occupied by entities, just like it works with trees and stones. It would also solved the first problem, because it would be inconvenient to use to create islands. It would be helpful rather in situation when you have a small water path on the area where you're placing blueprint.
I'm playing the SeaBlock mod pack in 0.16 and I can just make a blueprint of an area with nothing in it and I get a blueprint with landfill. That blueprint I can place anywhere I like and get ghosted landfill. I don't have construction bots yet but bluebuild happily builds the ghosted landfill as I move around. So you can select core tiles, can blueprint them and it makes total sense and works just fine. Just not in vanilla.

But anyhow that is a bit besides the point as creating blueprints specifically for landfill is another issue. This suggestion is about adding landfill that isn't in the blueprint but where water prevents a blueprint from being placed.

Aeternus
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 831
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:10 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Aeternus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:52 am

I'd advise to not do this, for a simple reason: It cannot be undone. If you misalign a blueprint you can accidentally fill in areas you need to stay water.

User avatar
<NO_NAME>
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:52 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by <NO_NAME> » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:52 am

Aeternus wrote:I'd advise to not do this, for a simple reason: It cannot be undone. If you misalign a blueprint you can accidentally fill in areas you need to stay water.
That's why you would have to press shift to confirm that.
I am a translator. And what you did for Factorio?
Check out my mod "Realistic Ores" and my other mods!

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:58 am

<NO_NAME> wrote:
Aeternus wrote:I'd advise to not do this, for a simple reason: It cannot be undone. If you misalign a blueprint you can accidentally fill in areas you need to stay water.
That's why you would have to press shift to confirm that.
And it only places ghosts so you can easily undo it by deconstructing it again.

And last it's far harder to misalign the blueprint than manually placing the landfill where you think the blueprint will be. Manually placing gives you two chances to misalign, first when looking where the blueprint should be and then again when you place the landfill.

adam_bise
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 120
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:42 pm
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by adam_bise » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:42 pm

This is one of the roadblocks still preventing automated land expansion in vanilla.

Zavian
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:57 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Zavian » Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:26 pm

My solar farms would appreciate me being able to automatically place landfill. (Ideally I would like to also add a couple of tiles of landfill around the blueprint, so I can walk around the edge. Ideally that margin would also be cleared of trees, if the blueprint was placed on land).

One alternative is something like https://mods.factorio.com/mod/platforms.

That neatly solves
Aeternus wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:52 am
I'd advise to not do this, for a simple reason: It cannot be undone. If you misalign a blueprint you can accidentally fill in areas you need to stay water.

Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1857
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by Jap2.0 » Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:22 pm

Ah, I see this has has had its annual suggestion post come around again. +1 as always.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

User avatar
BlueTemplar
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 240
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:16 pm
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by BlueTemplar » Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:59 am

Platforms sounds great if you're unwilling/unable to use waterfill - thanks !

mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2681
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am
Contact:

Re: Automatically landfill when placing blueprints/ghosts

Post by mrvn » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:23 am

Maybe one could write a mod that would add landfill ghosts to an existing blueprint as interim solution?

Post Reply

Return to “Ideas and Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests