Fill target with inserters

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S-Zoli
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Fill target with inserters

Post by S-Zoli »

Hi all Factorio fans!

I play this great game for a long time now, but I really miss one function (most of my suggestions are already mentioned or done).
It is possible to overfill assembling machines by hand (above the requirements of 2 result item), but not automatically.
I'd like to see an option (near the override stack size) to be able to overfill an assembling machine to max (or a limited chest, using circuit network) with inserters.

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Lubricus
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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by Lubricus »

That would help building effective high speed assembling machines. But the question would it make it more fun to try build high speed stuff? I think no. The game need limitations to make the need for the player to create complicated and interesting builds and explore the mechanics.

Tekky
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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by Tekky »

This has already been suggested four weeks ago in the following thread:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50086 [0.15.23] inserter waits too long

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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by Koub »

After you find a way to overfill assembling machines with stuff so that they have no downtime, you'll find yourself wanting a way to have even faster machines to process all that overfilling. And then you'll want faster assembling machines because with the overkill new speed of your machines, you'll find them ressource starved again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Factory Lobster
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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by Factory Lobster »

Koub wrote:After you find a way to overfill assembling machines with stuff so that they have no downtime, you'll find yourself wanting a way to have even faster machines to process all that overfilling. And then you'll want faster assembling machines because with the overkill new speed of your machines, you'll find them ressource starved again.
And again.
And again.
And again.
That's right. We all want one assembly machine per item, surrounded by a sea of beacons and roboports. Nothing on the screen but a blur of bots with speed 100 and millions of plates per second flooding in from miners that extract resources so fast that we are forced to have infinite resources turned on. 500,000GW consumption, trains circling for days with enough supplies in one load to fuel a normal factory for 24 hours.

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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by PacifyerGrey »

Actually this was suggested waaaay many times in different forms.
Current behaviour adds input buffer size automatically if you speed your machine up using modules/beacons proportionally. So maxed out 4 prod/8 beaconed assembler having a speed bonus of 365% has literally 4x size of an input buffer.
This helps a lot already as it is but is a problem when loading assembler by inserters from a belt so the delay is accumulated (first wait till buffer falls below activation margin, second collect 12 items from a belt, then load to an assembler).
So I was and still am for being able to configure input buffer size manually.

As a workaround at this moment you can use a buffer chest near assembler to load it from a belt and then use a stack inserter to load assembler from a chest. This generally negates most of downtime making it work optimally. However this adds extra 2 entities taking space and UPS.

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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by mrvn »

PacifyerGrey wrote:Actually this was suggested waaaay many times in different forms.
Current behaviour adds input buffer size automatically if you speed your machine up using modules/beacons proportionally. So maxed out 4 prod/8 beaconed assembler having a speed bonus of 365% has literally 4x size of an input buffer.
Didn't know modules affected the assemblers buffer size. Is it the speed or the prod module that affects this?

Does it affect the output buffer size too? I frequently load stuff from one assembler to another, like copper wire. Doing that with a stack inserter in multiples of 12 would be ideal. But for that the copper wire assembler has to produce at least 12 copper wire in its output buffer.

Can one change the buffer size through a mod? Could be interesting to make a mod to add research for larger buffer sizes or add them to the inserter bonuses research.

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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by PacifyerGrey »

mrvn wrote:
PacifyerGrey wrote:Actually this was suggested waaaay many times in different forms.
Current behaviour adds input buffer size automatically if you speed your machine up using modules/beacons proportionally. So maxed out 4 prod/8 beaconed assembler having a speed bonus of 365% has literally 4x size of an input buffer.
Didn't know modules affected the assemblers buffer size. Is it the speed or the prod module that affects this?

Does it affect the output buffer size too? I frequently load stuff from one assembler to another, like copper wire. Doing that with a stack inserter in multiples of 12 would be ideal. But for that the copper wire assembler has to produce at least 12 copper wire in its output buffer.

Can one change the buffer size through a mod? Could be interesting to make a mod to add research for larger buffer sizes or add them to the inserter bonuses research.
Speed modules effect buffer sizes. Both buffers are effected so in heavy beaconed setup stack inserter moves full 12 items between assemblers.
I do not think output buffer can be modded but I can't say for sure. I know that different entity prototypes like furnace/assembler handle output buffer differently so furnace has a full stack output buffer but assembler can only hold 2 production cycles in both buffers.

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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by mrvn »

PacifyerGrey wrote:
mrvn wrote:
PacifyerGrey wrote:Actually this was suggested waaaay many times in different forms.
Current behaviour adds input buffer size automatically if you speed your machine up using modules/beacons proportionally. So maxed out 4 prod/8 beaconed assembler having a speed bonus of 365% has literally 4x size of an input buffer.
Didn't know modules affected the assemblers buffer size. Is it the speed or the prod module that affects this?

Does it affect the output buffer size too? I frequently load stuff from one assembler to another, like copper wire. Doing that with a stack inserter in multiples of 12 would be ideal. But for that the copper wire assembler has to produce at least 12 copper wire in its output buffer.

Can one change the buffer size through a mod? Could be interesting to make a mod to add research for larger buffer sizes or add them to the inserter bonuses research.
Speed modules effect buffer sizes. Both buffers are effected so in heavy beaconed setup stack inserter moves full 12 items between assemblers.
I do not think output buffer can be modded but I can't say for sure. I know that different entity prototypes like furnace/assembler handle output buffer differently so furnace has a full stack output buffer but assembler can only hold 2 production cycles in both buffers.
Actually that is not quite true. An assembler can hold a full stack in its output buffer. But it stops requesting new input when it has 2 production cycles in its output. If you (over)fill it by hand then it will produce more. A furnace on the other hand keeps requesting till the output buffer holds a full stack.

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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by PacifyerGrey »

mrvn wrote: Actually that is not quite true. An assembler can hold a full stack in its output buffer. But it stops requesting new input when it has 2 production cycles in its output. If you (over)fill it by hand then it will produce more. A furnace on the other hand keeps requesting till the output buffer holds a full stack.
Quite or not it IS true. You can test it.
Just make a heavy beaconed setup and see for yourself.
It is not about full stack but the output buffer is increased proportionally to assembler speed modifier.
You can see it being visually obvious in green circuits beaconed setup where 2 stack inserters fill 1 side of a blue belt. There you can clearly see inserter picking almost full hand and then dropping it in long continuous line on a belt.

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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by mrvn »

PacifyerGrey wrote:
mrvn wrote: Actually that is not quite true. An assembler can hold a full stack in its output buffer. But it stops requesting new input when it has 2 production cycles in its output. If you (over)fill it by hand then it will produce more. A furnace on the other hand keeps requesting till the output buffer holds a full stack.
Quite or not it IS true. You can test it.
Just make a heavy beaconed setup and see for yourself.
It is not about full stack but the output buffer is increased proportionally to assembler speed modifier.
You can see it being visually obvious in green circuits beaconed setup where 2 stack inserters fill 1 side of a blue belt. There you can clearly see inserter picking almost full hand and then dropping it in long continuous line on a belt.
That's not what I was referring too. I'm saying that the output buffer size is not a limit of how much the assembler can produce and hold. It is only a limit of when inserter stop inserting more material for production. Same goes for the input buffer. The inserter only fill in 2 cycles worth (more with modules as you say) but you can fill in more by hand and it will produce more if it has the materials in the input buffers.

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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by PacifyerGrey »

mrvn wrote: That's not what I was referring too. I'm saying that the output buffer size is not a limit of how much the assembler can produce and hold. It is only a limit of when inserter stop inserting more material for production. Same goes for the input buffer. The inserter only fill in 2 cycles worth (more with modules as you say) but you can fill in more by hand and it will produce more if it has the materials in the input buffers.
Yes you can put up to a full stack (+automatic buffer size) into both input and output manually but tha is not a point of this thread. We are talking about automated loading.

S-Zoli
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Re: Fill target with inserters

Post by S-Zoli »

Yeah, I see, it has benn mentioned already.
I didn't say that it's a gamechanging feature, or I can't live without it, just a quick idea, some possibility to optimize e.g. power consumption.

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