Allow Trains to select their own stop.

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TheVeteraNoob
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Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by TheVeteraNoob » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:55 pm

TL;DR
Trains can decide where to go.
What ?
It would be cool if trains could set their own stops by circuit. I feel like with the functionality within trains it wouldn't be too much of a jump. Like using the same and or logic you can say that if the train has iron ore in it or something that it goes to this stop. And if it doesn't it continues its normal day.
Why ?
I feel that with this functionality. It would prevent players from having to create unreasonably complicated systems to preform a relativly simple task. While opening new doors to create incredibly effective smart train systems.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by Zeblote » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:14 pm

Your "Why?" just reads like "I don't know, but it sounds cool".

Where would you actually use this?

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by TheVeteraNoob » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:08 pm

You would use it when you want to have a more efficient train system. Like having trains that only go to an outpost when needed. Or have a dedicated refuel point.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by Lubricus » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:15 pm

You can already enable and disable train-stations and and if you give several stations the same name the train will chose the closest that is open. So you can already achieve this with wiring it will be tricky to get it to work perfectly...
How else should the trains select there stop? I don't see how a wire signal can represent a station without wiring up the station itself.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by urza99814 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:51 pm

I was just trying to figure out a way to make this work last night...

I've got a pretty congested rail network already, and there's some items I don't really have enough production of to keep even a single train busy full time. Lots of trains sitting idle in intake stations waiting for the output station to open up, or vice-versa in a few instances.

So what if I could use one train for multiple purposes? If I need more green science it will go to green science output, if I need more blue it'll go there instead. But I need a way to skip stations so I don't end up with a train full of green circling round and round because it's got no room to pick up any blue. So either I get six separate trains when I really only need one -- which would clog the intake station -- or I run green cable to every corner of the map so I can enable/disable those stations -- and then have to run to all corners of the map any time I need to update those conditions.

We already have almost everything needed to implement this... Just need to be able to apply circuit conditions to stations as well as wait conditions. I mean I'm sure that's easier said than done, but to me it's one or those things I always assume is possible until I try it and get stuck. Just seems like it should be....

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by Lubricus » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:12 pm

urza99814 wrote:I was just trying to figure out a way to make this work last night...

I've got a pretty congested rail network already, and there's some items I don't really have enough production of to keep even a single train busy full time. Lots of trains sitting idle in intake stations waiting for the output station to open up, or vice-versa in a few instances.

So what if I could use one train for multiple purposes? If I need more green science it will go to green science output, if I need more blue it'll go there instead. But I need a way to skip stations so I don't end up with a train full of green circling round and round because it's got no room to pick up any blue. So either I get six separate trains when I really only need one -- which would clog the intake station -- or I run green cable to every corner of the map so I can enable/disable those stations -- and then have to run to all corners of the map any time I need to update those conditions.

We already have almost everything needed to implement this... Just need to be able to apply circuit conditions to stations as well as wait conditions. I mean I'm sure that's easier said than done, but to me it's one or those things I always assume is possible until I try it and get stuck. Just seems like it should be....
You can add "circuit conditions to stations" I currently have a wire from the buffer chests to the station to open and close the station. Or do you mean anything else?
I don't use one train for multiple resources, you also can read the train content from the station... I close offloading stations when they are full to not clog up the station and there is no problem if trains stand and wait on loading station if the resource isn't needed.
There is stuff I want to solve, like let the trains go to a refueling station when fuel is going low instead of refueling on every offloading station.
The hybrid offload uranium ore and load sulfuric acid got clogged up by a pure sulfuric acid train so I built an separate sulfuric acid loading station, I wish I could figure out an smarter option.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by urza99814 » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:52 am

Lubricus wrote:
You can add "circuit conditions to stations" I currently have a wire from the buffer chests to the station to open and close the station. Or do you mean anything else?
Yeah I already use that a lot, but that's not quite what I meant. Basically that makes it easy to enable an iron mine when the mine is full, but it's much more difficult to disable the iron mine when the smelters (located somewhere far away) are full. You'd have to run circuit network cables all over the map. Most of my offloading stations accept multiple items so I don't want to close the station entirely, I want to tell the train which item the station needs more of and have it go get it.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by PacifyerGrey » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:38 pm

I find this related as it is a solution to your task
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25944
Skipping condition at the moment when nex station is chosen allows you really complex solutions.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by ssilk » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:30 pm

Based in this I've created a similar suggestion: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50128
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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by Ranakastrasz » Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:14 pm

Two things I can think of you can do with this,

Set location for picking up fuel, only activates when needed.
Set trains to go where needed, and scale to production demands, instead of having a round-loop that tends to stall when you reach cap on that resource. Instead allow trains to change to where they are needed.

Send trains for bullet/turret/robot/repairkit/wall/whatever resupply, on demand.


Some other stuff probably, not really sure. I am still pretty Newb at train. Using signals is still difficult for me, so yeah...
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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by Memleak » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:33 am

My forum account is exactly for this reason. I super support it. I feel like the "why" doesn't give enough light on where this can be useful.

So what you can make if you can directly control where a train should now go?

- Balanced train system (trains go when you need them where you need them)
- Have one big pool of trains which serves whatever is needed. Using circuits you'd be able to prioritise various things in your base without major modifications.
- Easy expansions - outposts can be connected to the rail network and trains will just start serving the new outpost. This would require circuits but the features are all there.
- Optimise to not have empty trains. There would be no need to have a return trip for a train where it goes empty. It can just go to the nearest stations and carry something else in another location. Most of the time they'll have a cargo. This is more of a roleplay / good design reason but fairly important, I feel.
- Possibility of creating a train depo - trains would idle there. The current way of doing this is so error prone.
- Trains could now serve / deliver multiple items in one go. Stations could work with multiple items in the same stop. A train could go pick up a specific number of green circuits, a tank of oil, one of water and a specific number of steel and iron and deliver part of the materials to stations A and part of the materials to station B. This is pretty much impossible to do now.
- It would be easier to create train only bases where each stations has a small factory that servers a single purpose. This is a dream of mine in factorio.

Probably so many more use cases which I cannot figure it now, as it happens with lots of factorio features. I also feel it would be a fairly small request, is not a complete overhaul or anything. I don't know how complicated the code is but the request itself is plain and isolated.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by Ripshaft » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:12 pm

TheVeteraNoob wrote:
TL;DR
Trains can decide where to go.
What ?
It would be cool if trains could set their own stops by circuit. I feel like with the functionality within trains it wouldn't be too much of a jump. Like using the same and or logic you can say that if the train has iron ore in it or something that it goes to this stop. And if it doesn't it continues its normal day.
Why ?
I feel that with this functionality. It would prevent players from having to create unreasonably complicated systems to preform a relativly simple task. While opening new doors to create incredibly effective smart train systems.
It's not very clear what you're suggesting here, it seems like you're advocating for a more abstract functionality of having trains modify their orders based on external factors, which I think has been suggested a bunch before, but can you lay out a particular implementation? You seem to have some specific ideas in mind but it's unclear how you see it working.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by TheVeteraNoob » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:33 am

What i want is exactly what the post ssilk linked to suggests. I kinda abandoned this post because of that.

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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:55 am

I don't understand the request. I thought trains could already do everything you're asking.
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Re: Allow Trains to select their own stop.

Post by mrvn » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:55 am

No, trains will always go to the next station on the list. If all stations of that name are disabled they skip it. That is the only thing trains can do.

And no, disabling stations is not the same as telling a train where to go. Because you can have multiple trains going to a station and disabling them will redirect all trains, not just the one.

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