Save custom world presets

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Enterpriser1995
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Map preset proposal

Post by Enterpriser1995 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:01 pm

hi guys.

So, here's the basic idea.

in the map generation screen, could you please add TWO more buttons? One would say "Load Preset..." and the other one "Save Preset..."

Basically, what i'm trying to say is that you should add a save/load button to the map generation screen so we don't have to insert all values again. It could be in a txt file, or whatever can be read by the game.

when this is imported, it automatically edits everything.

So, let's say for example that you have all of bob and dytech mods, and you got tired of the settings; with this you can set your map just once then load it if you have to reload the game due to a blackout, or something that makes you close Factorio.
Let me know what you think about it guys!

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by bobingabout » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:22 pm

Yeah, especially if you like to use the same settings every time you start a new game, or even just to know what you used last time, this would be very useful.
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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Enterpriser1995 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:26 pm

bobingabout wrote:Yeah, especially if you like to use the same settings every time you start a new game, or even just to know what you used last time, this would be very useful.
Yep.
For example i do like to play on "god-mode", all maxed out and peaceful mode, but setting 60 things to Very High, Very Big and Very Rich is really, really annoying :?

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by katyal » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:21 pm

if you use restart after generating the first time it will generate a new map with same settings. still like this idea though

+1

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Enterpriser1995 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:22 pm

katyal wrote:if you use restart after generating the first time it will generate a new map with same settings.
I'm afraid i couldn't find this option...

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by hoho » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:12 pm

Enterpriser1995 wrote:
katyal wrote:if you use restart after generating the first time it will generate a new map with same settings.
I'm afraid i couldn't find this option...
That only works when you don't close the game.

When you run the game, set the mapgen settings and start then those settings will persist as long as the game runs. You can return to main menu to start a new game and the settings will be there as you set them.

if those two buttons do get added I'd suggest adding a third one too: reset to default.

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Enterpriser1995 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:52 pm

hoho wrote:That only works when you don't close the game.

When you run the game, set the mapgen settings and start then those settings will persist as long as the game runs.
if those two buttons do get added I'd suggest adding a third one too: reset to default.
Well, i already knew that then ^^

The default would be the one you'd get on the first generation after the opening of the game, but if you can save presets you can also save one with the default configuration, i believe.

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by ssilk » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:23 pm

Why not taking the map exchange string and paste it in a textfile? You even can make interactive notes doing like so! :)
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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Enterpriser1995 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 10:53 pm

What do you mean? i'm kinda new to the Map Exchange String parameter so i really don't know what you're talking about :|

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by ssilk » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:06 pm

I mean, that you, if you created a map, and play it, it has the so called map exchange string. This string can be used to generate exacly the same map again.

The map exchange string can be get, when you load a game or map. There is a big button in the load-requester in the left border. You can mark it and It can then be directly copied into your clipboard (Control-C under windows).

It can be used in the map-generator: there is an extra field where you can paste this string into. (Control-V)

It looks for example like so:

Code: Select all

>>>AAALABAABgADAwYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAMDAgoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AwMCCQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAMDAgoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAwMCCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAwMCBQAAAHN0b25lAwMCORcrDUQ7AACMCwAAAAAAAAAAAA
ADAFR8w0Q=<<<
More info:
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... _generator
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 336#p50318
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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Enterpriser1995 » Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:42 pm

Aww, i see now.

But i don't like to play on the same map over and over again, sorry :|

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by ssilk » Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:19 am

Then you need to change just the map seed. :)
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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Enterpriser1995 » Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:30 am

And it would mantain my options?

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Wyrm » Tue Feb 24, 2015 1:29 am

ssilk wrote:I mean, that you, if you created a map, and play it, it has the so called map exchange string. This string can be used to generate exacly the same map again.
That does no good if the settings you used aren't exactly right. That is, replay a map with tweaked settings because something was a little too common for what you had in mind, or if the resources tested well, but all the lakes and ponds are annoying and need to be turned down a couple of notches. You can't do this with map exchange strings. This requires a preset, because a preset enables you to tweak the settings before play.

Presets also means that you don't have to go through an extra step of reloading a previous map and then restarting it to get a map with the same parameters in it, even if you do no tweaking. It's just good UI design.

(Also, "restart" to me means that the map is restored to the state you entered into, using the same seed.)

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by ssilk » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:13 am

It's not clear to me, what should be changed then. For example, if you don't quit the game, the map preferences aren't changed.

My opinion and off-topic: this is a quite big theme, which needs to be seen in the context of Map generation Changes:
Many, many suggestions: to point to the most important:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=6508
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=5635
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=6709
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=8185
And also some discussions, most likely about the the island problem. :)

And one thread, which tries to join things together: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=4692
In short: I think the current concept of generating the world with the Perlin noise is nice and useful, but it generates in the "micro sight" of the players too often unuseable maps. And the dimensions of the game are so big, that an map editor is also not the right choice. We need a tool, that let's players create maps, that are guaranteed to generate maps, that fit the map description. That is only possible, if I can "mix" maps with quite different settings in a predictable way.

If that will be implemented, these presets are just one little tool to generate one very little part of the map and so not needed, cause you have the map exchange string. So all you need would be a human readable exchange string, an uncompressed version, so that a modder can change the settings for that part of the map in his mod.

In other words (and get back to the topic): there are endless possibilities to generate good maps. The problem is,
A) most don't fit your current needs :)
B) they might have an ideal spot, anywhere, but not at the starting position. ;)

Generating maps, that fits the players needs are in my opinion nothing, which can be automated, therefore modding is the right tool. The moder can create a map description and the map, which matches that description exactly, if he has the right tools.
But the map generating process itself will be always complex and tools like storing preferences are in my eyes hide only the top of the iceberg - the real problem is - as I tried to explain - much bigger.
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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Wyrm » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:02 am

ssilk wrote:It's not clear to me, what should be changed then. For example, if you don't quit the game, the map preferences aren't changed.

My opinion and off-topic: this is a quite big theme, which needs to be seen in the context of Map generation Changes:
The topic here is not Map Generation changes per se. It's purely a UI change. Map parameters are not preferences. Different parameters create different worlds with different challenges and different challenges to overcome. You're going to play a game where coal is rare very differently from what you would play if coal is common (saving it for plastic only, for instance, using wood as your principle fuel). It is not unusual to want to play a different sort of map as a change of pace or as a challenge to yourself. It's not inconceivable to want to play one kind of map one session, and another kind of map another.

Thus, we have an interface to save a set of parameters to disk with the intention of reloading it later when we want to play the same kind of map again.

Also, the current map settings is not a preference pane because preferences are persistent across program launches, whereas changes to the map settings are not.
ssilk wrote:But the map generating process itself will be always complex and tools like storing preferences are in my eyes hide only the top of the iceberg - the real problem is - as I tried to explain - much bigger.
Sorry, but no. Factorio is hardly the first game to feature user-adjustable parameters to how the map generates. This is basic UI stuff. We just ask that you find a way to save the current settings of the map generator whatever they may be to disk for later recall. You're going to have to do that anyway if the map settings are genuine preferences because they would have to be persistent across executions of the game

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by ssilk » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:19 am

You are right, but still don't understand, that it makes no sense. :)

The preferences of a map with low coal - as in your example - just say, that there is in general, over a larger area (despite the starting area) low coal. That means, that you can have a map with surprising much coal in your surroundings, or a map with really no coal in the far area around you.
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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Wyrm » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:24 pm

Of course. Yes, you might spawn in a region where there is an abundance of coal on a no-coal map, but the map overall will have very little coal on average for a given area. That will have a large effect on how you play the game. You will realize that, once this rich coal patch is exhausted, you will have no coal at all until you stumble upon another coal patch (of varying size and richness) somewhere out there, probably defended by nasty biters. That's a challenge that a player may pose himself.

Or he may want to just play a normal game of Factorio with the default abundances.

Or he may play a test world where the abundances of all resources set high so he doesn't have to hunt for them while testing some factory designs.

That's three styles of play that a hypothetical player may engage in every time he starts a new game: Testing, Normal play, Challenge play. He may do any one of them depending on his mood.

One very important UI consideration in gaming is to shorten the amount of time the user spends not playing the game. When you're setting up your preferences, this is unavoidable, but once your preferences are set, you don't have to waste your time setting them again next time you launch the game. Currently, if your preferred style of play is the default style, then more often than not it's just "Play" > "New Game" > "Generate" and you're off to the races. If your preferred play style is not the default, then you may have to change up to thirty-three UI elements before you click "Generate" and start the game proper. That's a pain. Persistence between launches would ease that, as the settings last time the game was running would be saved and would presumably be set to your preferred style of play, so you're back to "Play" > "New Game" > "Generate", but if you have many play styles, you would still be changing a lot of settings when you change play styles. Having human-readable map exchange strings does not solve the problem that you still have to enter those settings by hand.

Presets solve that problem by reducing the thirty-three UI interactions to two or less, clicking "Select Map Preset..." > preset browser search and select. Boom! The thirty-three map settings are loaded with the values you desire, ready to play upon clicking "Generate". Saving a preset would then be a logical extension: click "Save Map Preset..." > type in preset name > Enter. Bam! Current map settings are saved in a preset to be used in the future. You don't even need a human-readable map exchange format or tools to snoop at a map's generation settings now. Just click "Import Map Parameters..." > type in map exchange string or select the save file. Bing! The settings for that map are loaded and ready for perusal, and may be saved in its own preset.

Is this clearer? There's no messing about with the guts of map generation beyond which we cannot do already by default, but rather its making the map generation easier and more pleasant to use.

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by Peter34 » Tue May 12, 2015 3:22 am

katyal wrote:if you use restart after generating the first time it will generate a new map with same settings. still like this idea though

+1
Yes, but it'd be nice if all future games use the same settings, since players tend to eventually discover settings that suit their particlar individual play style preferences well.

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Re: Map preset proposal

Post by ssilk » Tue May 12, 2015 6:37 am

Peter34 wrote:Yes, but it'd be nice if all future games use the same settings
? But it already uses the same setting as the previous.... ?
since players tend to eventually discover settings that suit their particlar individual play style preferences well.
Oh, I know where that ends: The game becomes boring. :)
Yes, really! Many players don't like change. But a game like Rolloercoaster Tycoon lives from the fact, that you play things, that you never would play. There are some levels in RCT, which are hated by different players. Some other hate other levels.

What I mean is: You can turn this around! There is something you like to play, but it is sometimes much more interesting to play something, which you don't like, because you meant it is too hard for you.
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