Cargo Airships?

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redlabel
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Cargo Airships?

Post by redlabel » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:56 pm

Sorry if I post too much here maybe this is also something for a mod, but...

Wouldn't it be nice if you had some form of air transport?

My idea is to make it relatively advanced tech and slow so it does not cannibalize Trains, but still make it an option for some situations.Imagine you have a map with very limited resources and you need to transport some urgently needed oil barrels over enemy territory! These planes could get attacked if they stay too long close to enemy bases (remember the zeppelins in Warcraft II?) but other than that be relatively safe to operate. Otherwise you would have to set u complex routing rules that would probably make it harder to implement...

Anyway just a thought. What do you think? It would certainly be neat.. Imagine going very far in the map and developing and outpost and being able to carry some finished products back to the main base without having to build a rail through the forest and kill thousands of biters... But yeah, make it expensive and slow so for example it cannot be used to transport thousands of rocket parts in the Oarc scenario to name one..

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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by Aeternus » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:35 pm

Not very realistic. Bulk cargo isn't airlifted for a reason... it's just too heavy.
Normal ships instead of airships would be a neat addition, but I'm not sure if the game will support that.

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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by ssilk » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:31 pm

Added to viewtopic.php?f=80&t=17734 New types of vehicles (train, tank, car, plane, ship...)
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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by redlabel » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:05 pm

Aeternus wrote:Not very realistic. Bulk cargo isn't airlifted for a reason... it's just too heavy.
Normal ships instead of airships would be a neat addition, but I'm not sure if the game will support that.
That is what I meant something slow and low volume. Like one of these modern zeppelin types. Perhaps holding just a large crate worth of stuff. It is meant for higher end stuff like blue chips and oil barrels when in dire need..

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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by steinio » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:45 am

redlabel wrote:
Aeternus wrote:Not very realistic. Bulk cargo isn't airlifted for a reason... it's just too heavy.
Normal ships instead of airships would be a neat addition, but I'm not sure if the game will support that.
That is what I meant something slow and low volume. Like one of these modern zeppelin types. Perhaps holding just a large crate worth of stuff. It is meant for higher end stuff like blue chips and oil barrels when in dire need..
Angel's Logistics adds big Airships but they are Logistic robots in disguise.
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Arch666A ... slogistics

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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by ssilk » Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:39 am

The problem with airships is their size (halfway realistic would be the size of 4-6 wagons in length and one wagon in width) and the fixed view from above. That results in blocked sight to the things below the airship.

I don't say that it must be THAT big, but how would smaller airships look? Some "wurling around" airships? Like robots? The trains looks already ridiculous when they are driving 45 degrees with 250 km/h.

So the alternative is just such a big sized thing. Which blocks sight.

Hm. It would be possible, if I the airship would be handled as pseudo-3D object: when the player moves around the airship moves around much faster - because of the height. Some kind of second layer over the ground.
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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by PacifyerGrey » Sat Apr 08, 2017 11:14 am

My idea was having named landing pads (similar to train stations) and dropships executing the same functionality as trains do - schedules etc. They could be really fuel-hungry and would have a space less than 1 wagon. These could be used for really fast transportation of valuable stuff (obviously not ores in bulk) like end result of some production lines for long range. These would not replace trains because of low cargo space and high fuel consumption but still could be useful.

The landing pads could also be really useful for personal transportation as opposed to Teleport mod being more realistic.

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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by ssilk » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:32 pm

Ok, that is also a problem with "realism clash": An airship cannot fly so fast as the trains currently do.

Think of it graphically: Something big, that is flying over the bots with 5-10 times more speed...

Well, I don't know, how that will come out in the end. My critics is perhaps just, cause this suggestion is far from being specific enough:
- How to load/empty the airships?
- How much could be loaded?
- How fast/big etc.? (already mentioned)
- Where to park unused airships?
...
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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by redlabel » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:58 pm

ssilk wrote:Ok, that is also a problem with "realism clash": An airship cannot fly so fast as the trains currently do.

Think of it graphically: Something big, that is flying over the bots with 5-10 times more speed...

Well, I don't know, how that will come out in the end. My critics is perhaps just, cause this suggestion is far from being specific enough:
- How to load/empty the airships?
- How much could be loaded?
- How fast/big etc.? (already mentioned)
- Where to park unused airships?
...
I might have a different view than OP but I think Airships should be slower. A zeppelin type airship that is half as fast as a train (although it can fly more or less straight) and half the load of a train wagon. Case use of these would be to ferry stuff across remote locations like oil barrels for example or a few chips. I guess you could have an airship port like a station and you can use inserters there to load/unload. In terms of size.. I don't know it could either be compact like 2x3 or larger like 3x8 (due to the air balloon).. So either compact drone style (3x3 like a flying factory? :D) or zeppelin type with a much larger total footprint.

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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by ssilk » Sat Apr 08, 2017 1:13 pm

Yes, that would be a much more interesting idea.
I think to the Harvester-concept, which can be found in many games since Dune.

- The ship would be able to fly to a resource field and mine the items directly. The ship is quite inefficient (takes much power), but it would be able to pick up those nasty little resources that are too small to mine them all.
- And it can be used to transport supply-items.
- Much slower than trains (100 km/h?).
- Problems with the needed space in the air (not useful, if you put many at one place).
- If the player drives with them a big, nice "radar" and a fantastic view. Allows deep explorations, but is in danger to be killed by the spitters.
- Needs some kind of "station"-pole to anker.
- Dependent on wind direction.
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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by redlabel » Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:52 pm

I personally would not allow it to mine by itself. And I don't think it should be affected by wind.. Too complicated and we have high tech in Factorio this is not some sort of Orc tech xD.

But this airships would use their own power but require a factory type dock that is a bit like a roboport or beacon like. You still need to walk to a place and set up a mini base but you don't need a train to carry the stuff back but can use this plane to drop off the stuff. A bit like a very long distance low speed logistics robot ...

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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by PacifyerGrey » Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:28 pm

I would make it so:
1. Automatic landing should be possible at named landing pads - a structure that would be placed like a train station and would be something like 4x4. Similar to trains loading/unloading would be done using adjacent inserters.
2. This should be a dropship, not airship, that utilizes turbines with a vertical landing capability. It should be really fast or otherwise it is inferior to trains in all possible ways.
3. Dropship should be able to land at any free 4x4 area. If the dropship has no destination it lands at the nearest free spot. It can also be placed on the ground.
4. When arriving at the busy landing pad a dropship will wait in the air until it can land. It can either hang still nearby like bots do or fly around slowly.
5. If the dropship runs out of fuel it lands at the nearest available area and can't move until manually refueled.
6. It would be cool if dropships would require liquid fuel which would be provided by new pumps for wagons, stationed near landing pads. This would however make out-of-fuel landings one-way tickets requiring manual pickup of a dropship and re-placing it on the landing pad to refuel. This would also provide the differentiation of cargo vs fuel at the loading phase.
7. Control-wise manual dropship driving can work simple. When a dropship is landed you can press Enter to get into it. When you start driving it lifts off also displaying its "shadow" - a spot directly under it - where it will land if you press Enter again while airborn. In other means it will behave like any other vehicle.

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Re: Cargo Airships?

Post by Aeternus » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:42 pm

ssilk wrote:Ok, that is also a problem with "realism clash": An airship cannot fly so fast as the trains currently do.

Think of it graphically: Something big, that is flying over the bots with 5-10 times more speed...

Well, I don't know, how that will come out in the end. My critics is perhaps just, cause this suggestion is far from being specific enough:
...
Could be implemented as a "train without a track" kind of system.

- How to load/empty the airships?
When docked at an Air Station, the "cargo bay" (3 tiles each end) opens allowing inserters to stow or grab stuff. Similar to how cargo wagons open and close. The front could be a loadpoint for fuel (1 tile).

- How much could be loaded?
Probably a single chest's worth? Dunno.

- How fast/big etc.? (already mentioned)
6x3 (little bigger then a Locomotive)

- Where to park unused airships?
Why land at all? Aerostats can just hover about, not using fuel.

I can also see the appeal of moving around manually using such a Zep manually - using it like a Car - being able to move by air and not be blocked by forests etc can be convenient. It also allows you to reach islands if you need to for some reason. Maybe even arm them with Rockets or Bombs to carpetbomb the snot out of Biter nests? :D (Bit of a Red Alert flashback there)

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