Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

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leoch
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Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by leoch » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:25 pm

Being able to build a coal-fired power station before getting basic automation feels kind of weird, as does designing a big power plant from the beginning even though you know you're not going to need most of that power for the first 10-30 minutes.

Instead, it might be good to have a small initial power source, and make even the coal-fired power station require research (and get rid of the totally unbelievable burner inserters).

One way to do this would be to start near a "crashed ship" with some remaining functionality; power production equivalent to a couple of solar panels and storage equivalent to a few accumulators. Or even quite a lot of accumulator capacity: this would allow construction of a real power plant to be delayed longer, and make early solar panel production (before accumulators can be built) more viable (but with a fixed limit to night-time stored power).

A simpler alternative might be to let the player start with a couple of solar panels (and possibly accumulators) in the inventory (the disadvantage being that this could result in the player getting stuck, should these panels be destroyed before other power is available).

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Some other things could be done if the player starts next to a wrecked ship; these may or may not be good ideas:
→ equip it with some kind of gun turret which _could_ be used to survive an early biter swarm
→ include a lab (accepting only red science packs) allowing research... of research (i.e. labs not initially available)
→ include some construction drones, to make initial tree felling and building easier
→ make it as the critical-to-defend initial structure in a wave-defence scenario
→ initial radar? possibly one that can be switched off to free up more power

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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by Jonathan88 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:47 pm

An interesting proposal: This sounds like quite a good idea, with a bit of tweaking :)
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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by AgentDove » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:10 pm

Could also include some laser turrets to make an area that the player can retreat to early game if they piss off a bit too many biters. the ship I'm imagining is a ship about the size you would find in FTL, with a small interior. could have the player start with nothing and have to collect the guns, ammo and iron that you would usually start with and have a small electric furnace built into the ship for your first resources.

it would need a way to remove it eventually, just in case you need to build in its location.
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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by Radioactive Pretzels » Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:38 am

Extend the same idea of some starting materials from the ship, and include one modular armor, 10 construction robots, one mobile roboport, and two or three portable solar panels.
Now you have a way to (slowly!) place blueprints in the early game.

You'd have to be very careful not to lose your (very few, very slow) robots to biters, or the armor to damage, but that's part of the game.

"Crashed ship" implies a big wreck. it could be a very small landing pod, or maybe even your modular armor itself as a "landing suit". This is just story justification to minimize programming and artwork for a new ship entity. If the suit is your landing craft (by parachute?) it'd explain your limited (but very useful) starting supplies.

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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by ssilk » Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:34 pm

What you describe is a scenario, not a game. :)
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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by Mroczny_Pasterz » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:03 am

I would add only that the goal of this scenario would be not to build but to REPAIR a spaceship.

Much faster play, with more aggressive aliens, proving to be a real challenge for players.
There could be a few predefined maps so players could compete with each other in finding the best build order - something like a league :D

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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by bobucles » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:27 pm

If the wrecked ship has the power of a Tier 2 assembler, then you can viably play the game with ZERO hand craftings.

Think about it.

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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by zetacon4 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:35 pm

I really like the idea of a scenario that has a wrecked ship off to the side of a large clearing with resources not very far from this clearing.
The ship has a few good starter pieces of tools and machines and power. This would give the player a good chance of setting up a factory that works in the first 45 minutes. The main problem I have with Factorio is the giant waste of time it presents. This can be fixed with a few simple improvements. I will make a thread for those ideas.

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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by thereaverofdarkness » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:59 am

ssilk wrote:What you describe is a scenario, not a game. :)
Added to viewtopic.php?f=80&t=13022 World Generation / Map Generator / Game Modes / Scenarios / Biomes
Lots of sandbox/freestyle games have you start with a default setup to get you on your feet. The similar game FortressCraft Evolved has you start next to a crashed ship with limited power generation. Starcraft has you start with a command center and multiple workers already positioned next to an ore deposit. Minecraft gives you the option to begin with the starter chest which contains some wood, food, and a few wooden or stone tools. Starmade starts you with a set of blocks adequate for building a complete ship, it places you next to a store with enough currency to buy early upgrades, and even gives you a power supply beam which you can use to get past early power production hurdles. EVE Online starts you with a fitted spaceship which is replaced for free any time you lose it. Master of Orion II starts you off with a colony ship and two frigates parked in orbit around your home world, and you have the option of starting with an advanced civilization, the caveat being everyone else starts advanced as well.

Not all sandbox games require you to start from scratch, in fact probably most of them do not. Starter items are fine in a sandbox game, and can even be a good thing. But if anyone is worried it may be disliked by some players, there can be an option to not start with it.



I like the idea of giving the player a crashed ship to begin with. It could generate and store a bit of power (enough to run lights and inserters) and perhaps even have a weak defense laser turret, maybe as powerful as the pistol. A player who isn't sure of themself yet may choose to remain near the crashed ship for improved safety. Burner inserters could indeed be eliminated if players started with a power source, and even if players chose to start without power, it wouldn't be so difficult to get by without inserters until you set up your own power.

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Re: Initial power / wreck/crashed ship

Post by ssilk » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:58 am

Lots of sandbox games start from scratch.

The rest is taste. :)

Many players suggested a longer burner based game (pre power) and there are some mods that do that. There are also mods, which enable more start inventory.

This is definitely a suggestion for a mod. :)
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