My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

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krux02
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My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by krux02 »

for lazy people only read big words
Here is my list of thoughts about the game. Overall I have to say this game is awesome, and I bacically only complain about the controls. Since the game is still fresh to me I am not too used to some inconveniences that you don't see them anymore if you played it for too long.

Controls
It took me a while until I learned how it all works. Some things are closed with E others with Q. It feels like it is something that evolved over time and did not get too much attention in the beginning. I haven't done this for you yet, but it would be worth thinking about. Do some newbe user tests and watch how they react to the controls.
  • First I would like you to use scancodes for keys instead of keycodes. Because then I do not need to remap all keys for my layout. I have a rather exotic one (comparable to Dvorak), but even for e.g: AZERTY it would already be very helpful.
  • When I want to place a building and my mouse is already at the correct position I notice that I am too far away. Then I come closer, but the position has moved. So here I would prefer to have the mouse fixed to the ground while building. On the other hand with belts and walls, I prefer to just hold and move. :?
  • This one is pretty personal I think, but I would like to have a mouse only mode. So moving around with the mouse and stuff like that. I know with mouse and keyboard I can do stuff faster, but this game is more about doing it right instead of fast and playing with only one hand at the computer lets me lean back while playing it. That much more comfortable. Same goes for Gamepad support. Would love to see that.
  • Inventory management is uncool. They look like they are copied from Mincraft without thinking about weather it is a good idea to do it the same way or not. Every sorted list with weights/sizes as Inventory would work better than stacking to "insert any power of two". It is really annoying that having many different kinds of items significantly reduces your inventory size. even having damaged towers, can explode the space consumption of items. A list like the details view in a file manager can also give you more info about items easily
  • Quickbar management is uncool. Here again it seems like it is just copied from Minecraft. A quickbar is something I want to design by myself with items I use most often, or is given and fixed by the designer of the game like in Half-Life. But every time an item goes out and I pick up something else my quickbar is changed. I don't want anything to change my quickbar automatically, I don't want any icon to get in or out of my quickbar automatically. After some time my quickbar has only items that I do not use at all (I picked them up and they went there without asking me), and stuff I use is not there anymore, because it tends to run out from time to time and then it's place becomes occupied my some unused or rarly used items. What I really want is a quickbar that is not just more inventory items, but some some constant hotkey bindings that let me quickly access my inventory. I want my quickbar to tell me the true amount of items I have of that type in my inventory, including 0 and not limited to the stacking size
Graphics
  • you should remove the metal slug explosion from your game.
  • LOD would be nice, so that you can zoom out even more. Maybe some icon graphics on a more distant zoom level, Like in Age of Wonders 3, or Battle Worlds Chronos
  • A pickaxe animation for chopping down a tree?
Last edited by krux02 on Mon May 12, 2014 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

murillokb
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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by murillokb »

stuff about stuff being crap
Uncool man.
A quickbar is something I want to design by myself with items I use most often...
have you tried clicking with the middle mouse button on the quickbar slot? it's pretty handy
I want my quickbar to tell me the true amount of items I have of that type in my inventory
it does that when you select the item.
for lazy people only read big words
Don't be lazy yourself, man :D read all the things.

Btw i don't see how having to move the mouse back to it's place after you moved yourself is a big deal. (unless you are really lazy)

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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by robhol »

OP: I think you raise a bunch of valid points... They could've been worded a bit more conscientiously, though. :p

murillokb: why are you trying to debate away valid suggestions? That doesn't lead anywhere.
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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by just_dont »

Regarding quickbar, he is correct on all accounts.
1. You can't have a quickbar that won't be touched without your permission, UNLESS you "lock" all available slots by pressing MMB. You can't leave empty slots because then they'll be filled next time you pick something new up.
And if you "lock" your entire quickbar -- good luck trying to sort things out when you suddenly need to switch a couple of items.
It's very clunky both ways.

2. Quickbar doesn't show TOTAL amount of items, only the amount in a separate stack. Only your mouse cursor (when an item is picked) displays totals.

Quickbar essentially works as an extension to your inventory (quickbar slots are the extra inventory slots), while I believe a "reference"-type quickbar (items are not moved from your inventory to quickbar, but only referenced for quick access) will work better and will be less clunkier.

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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by ssilk »

In the most points I'm with you. Very good watching! You really found some new points. Well, most of that is per sure already on the devs-todo-list, but far away. :)
krux02 wrote: After some time my quickbar has only items that I do not use at all (I picked them up and they went there without asking me), and stuff I use is not there anymore, because it tends to run out from time to time and then it's place becomes occupied my some unused or rarly used items. What I really want is a quickbar that is not just more inventory items, but some some constant hotkey bindings that let me quickly access my inventory. I want my quickbar to tell me the true amount of items I have of that type in my inventory, including 0 and not limited to the stacking size[/*]
You know, that you can use the middle-mouse-button to have an item fixed in the quick bar? It's a little bit cumbersome to use, but it works.
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
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krux02
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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by krux02 »

murillokb wrote:
stuff about stuff being crap
Uncool man.
You are right, I changed my words.

murillokb wrote:have you tried clicking with the middle mouse button on the quickbar slot? it's pretty handy
Ok thanks for the hint with the middle mouse button. I did not know that. But still I would prefer that as a default behavior.

murillokb wrote:Btw i don't see how having to move the mouse back to it's place after you moved yourself is a big deal. (unless you are really lazy)
It's not a big deal, it's just something that I noticed. Maybe it is worth mentioning, maybe not. And yes I am truly lazy, that's the reason I like to automate stuff.

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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by CobraA1 »

ssilk wrote:You know, that you can use the middle-mouse-button to have an item fixed in the quick bar? It's a little bit cumbersome to use, but it works.
Humm, only problem is, sometimes I play on my gaming laptop - and its touchpad has no middle mouse button :(.

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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by just_dont »

You can redefine all the controls.

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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by Sedado77 »

krux02 wrote: [*]Inventory management is uncool. They look like they are copied from Mincraft without thinking about weather it is a good idea to do it the same way or not. Every sorted list with weights/sizes as Inventory would work better than stacking to "insert any power of two". It is really annoying that having many different kinds of items significantly reduces your inventory size. even having damaged towers, can explode the space consumption of items. A list like the details view in a file manager can also give you more info about items easily[/*]
[*]Quickbar management is uncool. Here again it seems like it is just copied from Minecraft. A quickbar is something I want to design by myself with items I use most often, or is given and fixed by the designer of the game like in Half-Life. But every time an item goes out and I pick up something else my quickbar is changed. I don't want anything to change my quickbar automatically, I don't want any icon to get in or out of my quickbar automatically. After some time my quickbar has only items that I do not use at all (I picked them up and they went there without asking me), and stuff I use is not there anymore, because it tends to run out from time to time and then it's place becomes occupied my some unused or rarly used items. What I really want is a quickbar that is not just more inventory items, but some some constant hotkey bindings that let me quickly access my inventory. I want my quickbar to tell me the true amount of items I have of that type in my inventory, including 0 and not limited to the stacking size[/*]
Agree ++.
This is one of the things that ANNOY THE HELL out of me... Specially the "broken things use up extra inventory space" thing.
Got like 10 slots occupied with belts, 5 or 6 with usable belts and 4 or 5 with broken ones. Same with walls and turrets.
The MMB is an option, but it isn't the best way (IMO) of doing it.
Also, it would be good for the quickbar to be a link to your inventory (JUST AS 'PERSONAL LOGISTICS' WORK RIGHT NOW), and not an extention to it :D

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ssilk
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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by ssilk »

CobraA1 wrote:
ssilk wrote:You know, that you can use the middle-mouse-button to have an item fixed in the quick bar? It's a little bit cumbersome to use, but it works.
Humm, only problem is, sometimes I play on my gaming laptop - and its touchpad has no middle mouse button :(.
You can go into the application directory (see wiki) and replace the config.ini before you play. One for laptop, one for touchpad.
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by Gammro »

ssilk wrote:
CobraA1 wrote:
ssilk wrote:You know, that you can use the middle-mouse-button to have an item fixed in the quick bar? It's a little bit cumbersome to use, but it works.
Humm, only problem is, sometimes I play on my gaming laptop - and its touchpad has no middle mouse button :(.
You can go into the application directory (see wiki) and replace the config.ini before you play. One for laptop, one for touchpad.
Having a couple of presets, saveable as well as premade(for AZERTY for example), probably wouldn't hurt? It's all reconfigurable, but it's not exactly user friendly as-is.
Ignore this

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Re: My (controls) suggestions after player 37 hours freeplay

Post by YotaXP »

krux02 wrote:It took me a while until I learned how it all works. Some things are closed with E others with Q.
I can't remember off hand anything that required Q. Jog my memory?
krux02 wrote:When I want to place a building and my mouse is already at the correct position I notice that I am too far away. Then I come closer, but the position has moved. So here I would prefer to have the mouse fixed to the ground while building. On the other hand with belts and walls, I prefer to just hold and move. :?
Ugh. This bugs me all the time. Unfortunately, having some items pin the mouse while others don't would be kinda jarring. I might propose a more consistant solution: Pressing the mouse down while attempting to place something out of range pins the cursor to the ground at that point until the button is released. If the player moves into range while the button is pressed, the building gets placed, and the cursor remains pinned until released. (To prevent building multiple things accidentally.) Clicking and holding within building range should leave the cursor unpinned, and allow fast building. Criticism?
krux02 wrote:This one is pretty personal I think, but I would like to have a mouse only mode. So moving around with the mouse and stuff like that. I know with mouse and keyboard I can do stuff faster, but this game is more about doing it right instead of fast and playing with only one hand at the computer lets me lean back while playing it. That much more comfortable. Same goes for Gamepad support. Would love to see that.
I have absolutely no idea how you would pull this off. Same for the gamepad, unless you're talking Steam controller.
krux02 wrote:Inventory management is uncool. They look like they are copied from Mincraft without thinking about weather it is a good idea to do it the same way or not. Every sorted list with weights/sizes as Inventory would work better than stacking to "insert any power of two". It is really annoying that having many different kinds of items significantly reduces your inventory size. even having damaged towers, can explode the space consumption of items. A list like the details view in a file manager can also give you more info about items easily
Sometimes it is convenient, sometimes it is not. A toggle couldn't hurt. Doesn't look like it needs to auto-sort for any technical reason, since chests don't. I typically repair towers before picking them up, so I haven't dealt with that much. As for simple items like walls, someone once suggested making walls stack in the way ammo does. Picking up 2 walls at 50% HP results in one full wall. I liked that idea.
krux02 wrote:Quickbar management is uncool. Here again it seems like it is just copied from Minecraft. A quickbar is something I want to design by myself with items I use most often, or is given and fixed by the designer of the game like in Half-Life. But every time an item goes out and I pick up something else my quickbar is changed. I don't want anything to change my quickbar automatically, I don't want any icon to get in or out of my quickbar automatically. After some time my quickbar has only items that I do not use at all (I picked them up and they went there without asking me), and stuff I use is not there anymore, because it tends to run out from time to time and then it's place becomes occupied my some unused or rarly used items. What I really want is a quickbar that is not just more inventory items, but some some constant hotkey bindings that let me quickly access my inventory. I want my quickbar to tell me the true amount of items I have of that type in my inventory, including 0 and not limited to the stacking size
Others have already mentioned the slot lock feature. I run into the "belt filled with junk buildings" issue too, but it hasn't been anything more than a minor annoyance. I usually have one row of the belt locked down to my most common stuff, and let the second one be the "recent items" bunch. As for the stack sizes, everyone seems to be saying it shows the total on the cursor when you pick up the item, but this hasn't been my experience. I regularly see the number drop to 0 while placing bunches of items, and then jump back to 64 as it auto-grabs the next stack in my inventory. I would certainly love for the belt to show the total count, even if it only applied to locked slots.

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