I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

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ssilk
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I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by ssilk » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:44 pm

You made a cool suggestion and there is only a reply like
There is a mod, which implements this suggestion, see .....link to mod....
This is not, what you wanted.
En Dotter replied here this wonderful answer:
En_Dotter wrote:Tnx for responses guys! They were helpful.
I just gotta make one little comment. In most of the games that involve crafting and management i hear a lot of responses that sound like "there is a mod" or "it is easy to mod it by changing this and that" and other similar statements. While i really appreciate any kind of help, most of the time i suggest things that i think would benefit the original (vanilla) game. Don't get me wrong, but answers involving mods and modding are not something i am looking for. I play mods after i get "fed up" with the vanilla to spice things up and stuff like that. I suppose thats just a play style preference after all.
Well, we had such kind of discussions already. :) So I want to present the results.

The reasons why it is very useful, that mods are mentioned in suggestions are:
  • If there is a mod, there is a much bigger chance that the idea is added into vanilla.
  • By using a mod there is a much bigger chance that the mod is added into vanilla, than by discussing around.
  • A working implementation (=code) is much more worth than 100,000 words. (Sorry, but every programmer knows that this is true)
  • By using a mod (=increasing the download count) you motivate the modder much more, than you can imagine.
  • Logically: By using a mod bugs of that mods will be fixed (if reported of course).
  • By using a mod you have a much higher chance to influence development, than for the vanilla. (You can talk directly with the modder! In general they are much more willing to implement your ideas into their mods, than the Factorio-dev-team :) )
  • A suggestion may sound very useful in theory. Yes, in most cases this true, when implemented. But I've seen also some cases where this wasn't so (even some of my ideas). The idea wasn't playable/not such a good idea as it sounded. Until you haven't tried out a new concept there is just no prove.
  • It can take months to years, until your suggestion is implemented into vanilla, cause there are a lot more other ideas.
  • Because it takes so long to be implemented it is useful to use a mod instead, cause the game changes and your idea needs an update or becomes absurd.
  • Others than you read this suggestions and will try out mods, even if you would never do that.
  • Modders read this suggestions and if their mod is mentioned their target (players know their mod, download count) is achieved. Logically they get also much more interested to implement your idea.
Hope that helps you to understand, that there is no malicious of mentioning mods, instead it makes much sense to keep it this way. :)

It also makes much sense, that you as a someone who has suggested things, tries out similar ideas, that already has been implemented as mod.
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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by CorBlimey » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:20 pm

i got a mod for your suggestion http://bit.ly/4kb77v


(I agree with your post however ;) )

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by Koub » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:57 pm

There are two things I'd like to add.

First, there are many (like REALLY many) good ideas. Not all are good, but there are way more good ideas than the game will ever be able to see implemented.

Some ideas should be implemented in vanilla one day, because they either are necessary to make the game more whole, or just complete a half-placeholder a game element works (better interface, helpers, handling of fluids, ...), the kind of things for which you reach because you feel there should be there, and ...nope.

Some alter the game philosophy, mechanics, ... These, even very good, belong to the modding sphere no matter what.

Second, don't forget that if someone has ever made a mod for something, it's already a suggestion in itself, and a proof of concept on top of that. If you get answered that there is a mod for something, it's that someone before you has has the same - or similar - idea as you, and went one step further. So pointing you to a mod is still valid, even if your unspoken whish is to see it in vanilla.
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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by aeros1 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:52 am

I would also add that using mod to enchance your gameplay, allows developers get something new really good which you may or may not use. (Like atrition, or component based repair(aka one of ingredients damaged and needs replacement as well as repair tool or building is less effective))
This adds new mechanics to play both for modders and players. And sooner or later some mods get into main game(like logistic train stations are now part of regular train stations.) Not saying developers not necessary able to make happy everyone and thats what mods are for. For better customized experience.

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by quadrox » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:27 am

These are all very good points, and I do not disagree in any way. And of course there will be ideas that stray too far from the theme/idea of the vanilla game to ever be implemented in vanilla, and therefore they can only be done in mods.

However one important point has not been mentioned: Authenticity and balance.

Like En_Dotter wrote (was quoted) in the OP, I prefer to play vanilla as much as possible - the reason is mostly that usually I don't want to "cheat". The vanilla game has been tweaked and finetuned for balance and long-term enjoyment by the developers. I realize that even the developers won't get everything quite right, at least on the first try, but overall the vanilla experience has a certain authenticity to it: this is the way the game is supposed to be.

While I am sure that most modders strive to maintain a good balance in their mods, I know from experience with other games that mods can vary quite a lot when it comes to quality and balance, so that some mods may make the game entirely too easy.

If I play with mods I will always have the nagging feeling that I am not playing right, that I am cheating, simply because I can't be sure that a given mod isn't OP or breaking game balance. Now this might just be my personal problem, but I am sure other players think along the same lines.

It would be cool (and probably unlikely) if there was some kind of "seal of approval" by the developers, that a certain mod fits well into the vanilla base game and seems to be well balanced.

All that being said, I discovered some cool mods yesterday and am likely to try them out sometime soon.

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by ssilk » Fri Aug 19, 2016 11:33 am

Well, it depends on what you call "cheat". That is a wide range. Some would say "no mods". O.k., that is an opinion I can accept. Others say: "Better graphics or music is no cheating". Some more would say: "A better way to see existing game-information is it." Others would say: "I think the raillayer mod, or the Fat Controller mod is no cheating, cause they use game mechanics, which is already available yet; just much faster. They are just Helpers.".
Other would say: "I need to cheat to play MY idea of the game."
Somebody can say: "I cheat, cause I want to make a scenario, that others can use for fun."
And so on. And then there are mods, which change the game so completely, that you cannot say, that it is cheating, cause they are so different.
Anywhere between these extremes are mods, that could be categorized as cheating, yes. But some of them could also be seen as "balance-fix". It's difficult to have here an objective opinion, so everyone needs to decide it on his/her own.

But fact is, that mods or ideas of mods or parts of them have a much bigger chance to be implemented into vanilla than pure suggestions, it is just pure economics, some may love it, some may cry, but that's the point of this subject. :)
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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by Mendel » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:52 am

Right now I think the biggest issue with this... perhaps the only real issue with this is that in multiplayer the mods do not (yet) automatically download to clients from server.
Ironically this issue has only gotten bigger as the multiplayer part of the game has improved. Previously modding the game was a better solution since you were likely only ever going to play single player anyways since hosting and joining in 0.12 was such a chore and it was likely to be laggy if more people joined. Now that multiplayer mostly works, I would like to play multiplayer by default.

Okay, so for example, I just made my first ever mod and I will likely use it for all my single player games. However, right now I am very excited about the multiplayer aspect of the game.

Now, next time I host a game I will likely not use my mod because I dont think random people are willing to download my mod in order to join my game even though I think my mod would make more sense for multiplayer than single player. Not ideal situation. But I trust this will be fixed before too long.

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by ssilk » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:40 am

I think so, too. Cause I think the devs also want to play multiplayer games with mods. ;)
See viewtopic.php?f=80&t=27805 Suggestion around Game-Internal Mods-Handling/Mods-Management
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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by <NO_NAME> » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:24 pm

Version 0.13 creates a completely new problem with mods: lack of achievements.
I am a translator. And what you did for Factorio?
Check out my mod "Realistic Ores" and my other mods!

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by mooklepticon » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:12 pm

<NO_NAME> wrote:Version 0.13 creates a completely new problem with mods: lack of achievements.
Specifically, Steam achievements. You get Factorio achievements, still.

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by bobingabout » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:30 pm

Technology research progress being saved when you change research, and being restored when you change back.

This was a request quite some times ago. I implemented the first mod for this, mostly as a fix for those who needed it due to trolls and griefers in multiplayer.

now it's in base game.



This is proof that what our good friend Ssilk is talking about.

Ask for an idea, nothing happens in the game straight away.
Someone makes a mod, proves it's a good idea.
Mod becomes popular and widely used.
The Devs notice this, and eventually implement it into base game.


I firmly believe that if I, or someone else did not make this mod, then there is a strong likelihood that this feature would not currently be in the base game.

To support this, I have seen at least one instance where the developers have stated in a change log that they were inspired to do something because of my mods.
And this isn't even including all the direct requests I have made on the forums that were implemented.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by cpy » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:49 pm

*cough* planting trees *cough*

Anyway can we get planting tree stuff? 1 wood -> 1 sapling -> planted tree. Now this phase will eat a lot of cpu because of scripts but when tree is fully grown it becomes static tree as all other trees. Sometimes you want to keep pollution under control without air filter mods. Trees are best looking wall anyway.

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by Pascali » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:13 pm

What about a dev-team-mod? It can me called anticheat. One part of the vanilla-game leaves it an going to the mod: bots

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by batorfly » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:15 pm

Pascali wrote:What about a dev-team-mod? It can me called anticheat. One part of the vanilla-game leaves it an going to the mod: bots
There is a mod For that, my friend ;*

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/DisableEntities

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by Pascali » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:23 pm

Thats only the half part. They still staying in vanilla. And repair-bots are o.k.

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Re: I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(

Post by vyktor » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:35 pm

FFF Idea: List of mods that made (will make) it into vanilla

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