Fixed maps discussion

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TheDagmaar
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Fixed maps discussion

Post by TheDagmaar » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:50 pm

Well it's probably posted before, but (maybe I posted in the wrong sub-forum) I want to talk a discussion about it. A brainstorming if you like. Basically its not a suggestion.

First things first: Why do I made this post?
Things are changing & evolving, and soon its time to improve a thing what the devs are avoid (I think)

Well. Everybody who is talking about the random generated maps thinks it's not doing its job's well. There is a big percent of the generated maps are bad or worse.
In my time (yea, I am old) the games had fix maps, and with fix maps there were fixed tactics. And I loved them. These random generated things are come with Minecraft (and its clones) I think.
Some are talk about the trains are not remunerative. And yes. Some times the normal/basic (with everything on normal) map comes with so much resources you don't need any logistics, and some times it comes with resources too far from the centre, so its far behind the enemy lines and you don't have the resources for the battle, so you just give up or die trying.

BUT:
>Fixed map is not infinite. Should it? Yes or no?
Image
Do anyone remember the map creator of Simcity 4? What if you start on a fix map then you could connect new maps?

>Too few visual things (yet). I bet Jurek work on this hard! (to Him: Make me some pretty flowers and birds what makes the game fabulous! No homo!)
Image

>A problem with the map creator as it is: the things are too fix. If you create a map it will be solid. If an oil says it has 300% then it has 300%, you can't change it without changing the map. When you pick a map you could change its properties like in random generated maps. Short: map is fix but not the numbers

tl;dr : You should, It's a discussion, THEN you should hit the Reply button, I want to know how the others feel
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ssilk
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Re: Fixed maps discussion

Post by ssilk » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:43 pm

A random map is a random map. What does it mean? Try a simple experiment: Take a map of the earth, pic up a random position and I would say in more than 90% you will land on a place, where you won't live. :)

The same is it with the Factorio map generator. He generates random landscapes. It's his job. But a random map does not nearly guarantee a good game. That is not possible. You would now say: no, other games do it. I say: they are not really random.

I think it is the right way: to generate good maps you need a random part and some generated part. I think Factorio is doing the random part more or less well.

But what is with the generated part?
This is the moment, when I bring in the link to viewtopic.php?f=80&t=13022
World Generation / Map Generator / Game Modes / Scenarios
cause otherwise I will begin to repeat me. :) Please read that!!

In short words what is described there: the map generator is random, but good maps aren't. What we need is a system that takes random maps but blends in generated stuff when needed.
So the suggestion is a bit complex. Again: please read it. ;)
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TheDagmaar
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Re: Fixed maps discussion

Post by TheDagmaar » Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:58 pm

ssilk wrote:A random map is a random map
This thread is about not having one. And about human made fix (maybe this isn't the proper word) /solid/pre-made/pre-build maps
I don't want to fix the random map generator, because its not broken. My problem is we don't have maps what are fully made by human in vanilla version... EXCEPT the campaign!
ssilk wrote:So the suggestion is a bit complex.
TheDagmaar wrote:Well it's probably posted before, but (maybe I posted in the wrong sub-forum) I want a discussion about it. A brainstorming if you like. Basically its not a suggestion.
So, if we really want to make it a suggestion, then here it is:
>possibility to choose between a random and a human made map
>options for the human made map
>possibility to extend the existing human made map (because it isn't infinite)
>all above in vanilla

...but I still want to hear about others opinion
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ssilk
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Re: Fixed maps discussion

Post by ssilk » Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:30 pm

ssilk wrote:
TheDagmaar wrote: A random map is a random map
This thread is about not having one.
Well, use a scenario or create an own map? :)
And about human made fix (maybe this isn't the proper word) /solid/pre-made/pre-build maps
I don't want to fix the random map generator, because its not broken. My problem is we don't have maps what are fully made by human in vanilla version... EXCEPT the campaign!
Ah. Yes, that brings the problem much more to the point.
The maps in Factorio are 50-100 times bigger, than all games I played before.
50-100 times bigger. That is much more, than can be done by human. Ergo: Maps in Factorio needs to be always generated. Somehow. Only parts can be human generated. Somehow the size of what can be created with blueprints. Humans can tell the generator what to insert where. But generating a map is in general just too difficult for humans. (not impossible)
So, if we really want to make it a suggestion, then here it is:
>possibility to choose between a random and a human made map
Well, you already can choose Maps&Scenarios : viewforum.php?f=36
>options for the human made map
>possibility to extend the existing human made map (because it isn't infinite)
Not understanding what you mean, sorry.
>all above in vanilla
Maps are big. I don't think it is a good idea to provide more than basic maps with the game.


Not what you expected,...
...but I still want to hear about others opinion
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