[0.13] Power Switch: make it switch red/green wire, too

[siggboy]

I'd like the power switch to get connectors for red/green wire, like the power poles, so you can use it to connect and disconnect the circuit network along with the power network.

I'm not talking about the input port on the power switch that allows you to control the switch with a circuit condition.

If the power switch itself would also transmit wire signals, like a power pole, then you could use it as a physical switch for circuit inputs. You could also make sure that circuit outputs from behind a power network that you disconnect are disconnected as well.

Example: Your refinery is behind a power switch. The refinery contains fluid tanks that output their contents to the circuit network. If those wire ran through the power switch, they would be disconnected along with the power to the refinery.

Example: you want a nice, physical switch in the game world to trigger a circuit condition. You could use the power switch for that. (It would be more easy than to use a decider combinator + constant combinator as a gate, and also look nicer).


I'm assuming that this could be implemented rather easily, so I'm suggesting it as a new feature for 0.13.

[ssilk]

Hm. Interesting idea.

Just for curiousness: For what can this be used? - specifically!

[siggboy]

Just for curiousness: For what can this be used? - specifically!

I've given two examples already.

I think the simplest case is just to switch a circuit condition on an off manually. As I've said, this can also be done with a constant combinator and a decider combinator, but that's already a bit advanced, and also it does not look very organic in the game world. You can go into the combinator circuit and toggle the output "on" or "off" and you'll also have the little blue indicator light on the combinator -- a power switch would be easier though, and it's also more visible and more intuitive for that purpose.

You have a red wire running through the power switch, and the red wire is carrying a signal. You want to cut that signal. You turn off the switch, done. It's easy to understand and it makes a lot of sense, too, because you can run signal wires through power poles, and so you should be able to run them through the power switch as well.

The more advanced cases are related to the refinery example that I've given. If you switch off a portion of your factory, you might want to also cut off certain signal outputs from that sub-factory along with the power. Some signals might make no sense if the factory itself is not powered up.

Or if you use my train scheduler (or any train scheduler) you have outposts and circuits and signals related to them. Let's say you cut off certain outposts to save power, you then also want to take those outposts off the circuit network, so your trains won't go there. Stuff like that, it all comes very natural with the proposed changes to the power switch.

It can all be done somehow in the current version, but since having signal wires run through the power switch makes a lot of sense and since it's -- supposedly -- fairly easy to implement I think it would be a good idea to have it. I also assume that many players assume it's possible (since it's possible with power poles, too).

[Nexela]

This would be a nice feature for all of the reasons Siggboy has explained

[BlakeMW]

I've also found myself wanting this feature.

Can be done with an arithmetic combinator - something along the lines of Each * A where A is 0 or 1, but this requires a separate constant combinator for a control signal if using it as a manual switch and more importantly lacks the conceptual clarity of a switch.

I think all it would require is the power switch has circuit connection dongles on both sides. If you connect circuit wires to separate dongles then the signal is cut when the switch is off. As the power switch is not directional when using a circuit condition to turn it on it would need to sum the signals from all 4 (potential) connections.

[siggboy]

As the power switch is not directional when using a circuit condition to turn it on it would need to sum the signals from all 4 (potential) connections.

That's making it sound more complicated than it is.

If the switch is on = it acts as a power pole
If the switch is off = it does not exist

as far as the signal wires running through it are concerned (and the power wires as well, but that's already implemented and not a part of this feature request anyway).

I don't think the circuit condition that is acting on the power switch itself should be involved at all in this. It's only about having connectors for red/green on the switch and switch those along with the power line (copper cable).

[Neotix]

So far to turn on/off signals I'm using negator. It take some space so this feature would be nice replacement.

[BlakeMW]

As the power switch is not directional when using a circuit condition to turn it on it would need to sum the signals from all 4 (potential) connections.

That's making it sound more complicated than it is.

If the switch is on = it acts as a power pole
If the switch is off = it does not exist

as far as the signal wires running through it are concerned (and the power wires as well, but that's already implemented and not a part of this feature request anyway).

I don't think the circuit condition that is acting on the power switch itself should be involved at all in this. It's only about having connectors for red/green on the switch and switch those along with the power line (copper cable).

I actually think you're undercomplicating it. It needs at least two connection points - either a "left network" and "right network" or a "control" and "bridge", imo having a "left network" and "right network" is more logical and intuitive as everywhere else in the game wires which are joined to the same point are always connected to each other regardless of the state of the device.

[siggboy]

Of course it needs a "left side" and a "right side", otherwise it would all be connected all the time and it would just be a simple power pole and not a switch.

Right now we have a "left side" and a "right side" for copper cable (power).

I'm suggesting to add a "left side" and a "right side" for green and red wires as well. Very easy, very simple, all this talk about it is not necessary.

[ssilk]

I see it similarly. This is quite simple change with high improvement of gameplay.
It is eventually not implemented, cause the circuit network have eventually not this split-mechanism implemented (like for the electric network), I think that should be fixed before, cause players come to stupid ideas like switching a 1000 wires network on/off every tick, which will cost a lot of performance.

[siggboy]

It is eventually not implemented, cause the circuit network have eventually not this split-mechanism

"Eventually" in English is not the same as "eventuell" in German. If you confuse the two some English sentences do not make a lot of sense .

[MindChanger]

Maybe it is possible to create compact signal closer using power switch? It is just an idea, it maybe could work somehow.

Nevermind, can't read from this switch any informations.

Maybe creating switch with option to be power and logistic switch would be the best solution?
Switch with power option ould work as it works now, logistic switch could send some signal when it is on.

[mattj256]

This is a logical and useful idea and I hope it can be implemented in vanilla.

(I've never written a mod. I suspect this easy to write as a mod as well.)

[ssilk]

It is eventually not implemented, cause the circuit network have eventually not this split-mechanism

"Eventually" in English is not the same as "eventuell" in German. If you confuse the two some English sentences do not make a lot of sense .

Thanks. Replace it with "possibly"...

[MeduSalem]

I see it similarly. This is quite simple change with high improvement of gameplay.
It is eventually not implemented, cause the circuit network have eventually not this split-mechanism implemented (like for the electric network), I think that should be fixed before, cause players come to stupid ideas like switching a 1000 wires network on/off every tick, which will cost a lot of performance.

Well if you think about it... the circuit network switch might not be that much of a performance hit compared to how deciders work currently, but I don't know...

Because imagine if you have two seperate circuit networks and with decider combinators you merge the "EVERYTHING" outputs of both deciders to a third network, effectively summing both of them up.

So a merger of two circuit networks with the power switch would be basically very similar to that... summing the contents of both networks up.

[siggboy]

Without know the Factorio internals, I don't see a reason why the power switch interacting with circuit wires running through it should be more expensive than any other combinator. Like MeduSalem says, if you make a gate with a decider combinator and switch that every tick it would amount to the same thing.

Internally, the signal switching and power switching would probably be handled completely separate, but that fact would not be visible to the player, and also there's no reason for us to care about it.

[ssilk]

Without know the Factorio internals, I don't see a reason why the power switch interacting with circuit wires running through it should be more expensive than any other combinator. Like MeduSalem says, if you make a gate with a decider combinator and switch that every tick it would amount to the same thing.

Simple answer: Combinator has a "direction". Switch not. If you turn on the switch, both wires are connected as if they where one network.

[siggboy]

Yes, but I don't see why this would necessary be more expensive to implement. The worst case (from the devs point of view) is probably that the same optimization that has been applied to the power network also needs to be applied to the wire network. This might be the reason why the red/green connectors have not been added to the power switch in the first place.

[ssilk]

It is eventually not implemented, cause the circuit network have eventually not this split-mechanism implemented (like for the electric network),

[siggboy]

It is eventually not implemented, cause the circuit network have eventually not this split-mechanism implemented (like for the electric network)

Yes, and because the circuits don't have the "split network" optimization, that's the reason why they can never have it and it will never happen. Is that what you're saying?

(BTW you don't have to quote yourself to hammer down a statement, I've read that and I understand it and it does not matter to me in this context.)

I'm absolutely not interested in the reasons why we currently don't have this on the power switch. I want it to be added, unless it's an unresonable amount of work.