Moving and transporting full chests

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PacifyerGrey
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Moving and transporting full chests

Post by PacifyerGrey » Sun Jul 03, 2016 3:59 pm

Looking at end game problems I have come up with an idea which apart from solving some QoL things will help solve end game bulk transportation issues.

I am talking about removing the nessassity of loading/unloading multiple chests while cargo is being transported.
Lets imagine the path say iron ore makes until it reaches smeltery. This will be a general overview of an idea without in-depth details.

So after being mined ore is loaded to chests. These chests can be anywhere and nor nessessarily on the train station.
Then we introduce a special type of inserters that will pick up chests and put them on... transport belt. This can be either normal transport belt or a newly introduced one. I think normal ones will be just fine. Common inserters will just ignore chests on the belt as they are not able to handle them. We can see this becomes a solution for extreme density transport bottleneck.

Next our chest arrives to train station. There again we have our chest inserters which will load into a special wagon type - just open platform with 6 free spots just like the number of inserters you can currently connect to a wagon. We get a really fast wagon load/unload speed and another bottleneck removed.

No need to describe further path as it will just be a mirror of described actions.

In the late game you might introduce a special type of a large logistic bot that can transport chest by air as well.

Now going into details

I have found an idea of a Forklift for moving chests. This is just fun and QoL idea. But not what I could use in this particular design.
What I could use is a module for power armor just like exoskeleton (and maybe namely it? ) which will allow player to pick up loaded chests himself and move them. This will not only make QoL change but will help with a manual interraction with the system.

So lets model our path in detail from the start to the end.
1. Loading.
This is the old question as I researched. I will not mess with it as it was done for example here. I don't think there is a reason to change anything here.

2. Chest inserter.
This is a complex question at a glance. If you make it work like a common inserter then how can you wait till the chest is loaded? Or if you moved a chest from a belt on the ground for unloading - what will you do next after unload is complete?
I will suggest 2 types of chest inserters. Common and smart. Common chest inserter will move totally full chests in one direction and totally empty in opposite. Thats it! This simple logic allows all logistic steps - both loading and unloading. You will probably need to set up kinda circular belts for chests as the same belt will be used for both empty and loaded chests but it can be sorted out pretty simple. Smart chest loader might filter chests with filtered items inside.

As stated above - this is a really tricky question so you might find a better solution to it. Can require some brainstorming on it.

3. Platform wagon.
Ofcourse making it just open with real display of chests on it is just a superdifficult task. So you might go for a generic model with a really limited number of cargo slots it it - like 6 or so, which can accept chests only. Surely this can evolve in time - starting with generic wagon going into open one with exposed chests at some point.

You might want to make all 6 parts of a wagon separate and only contain 1 chest so that you can plan using the wagon for moving multiple ware types. It this case you may still use common inserters to unload it without getting the chests out.

4. Chests.
I am up for using existing chests. You might need to research what size is available to you. But you can also opt for creating a new type of a chest which will not act as a common chest but can contain a single material but in bulk quantities. However this removes all the fun from the idea, but still solving bulk transport problems.

5. Belts
While you can introduce a special type of belts I think using existing types is just fine. However looking at this as a more endgame feature - you may requere usage of blue belts for this. But still using a new type of belt makes sense as you might want to prevent using splitters for example and you might want to limit speed of these belts but still require high tech level. This is really open for discussion.

6. Logistic network
There are several ideas here.
You can add logistic pads. These pads might even replace existing chests as any chest which is placed on the pad starts acting like respective chest type. So placing a chest on Acive provider pad will make it act like active provider chest.
The difference comes with handling these chests.
First they can be handled by existing logistic bots just like it is currently done.
Second is as I mentioned above - you can add a special type of a heavy lifter logistic bot which can then lift the chest and move it to a respective requester/storage pad. In this case empty chests on a requester/storage pads should be moved somewhere to be stored as a common item. You can also make a pad request empty deployed chest.
You can add both types of behaviour but then you need either two different types of pads or just configurable mode of function.

Other ways to have fun
You can add a new vehicle type - a truck - which will have a single slot for a loaded chest. A player with exoskeleton can lift one and load it into a truck for long way transportation.
The player while carrying a chest will have his movement speed dramatically reduced. This will encourage automated transportation.

Thats it for now folks! Hope you like the idea.

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Re: Moving and transporting full chests

Post by ssilk » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:43 pm

I've added it to viewtopic.php?f=80&t=23008 Warehouse / Depot / Storage / Stock (and related)

It's below the "Related: Boxing". :)
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BlackKnight
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Re: Moving and transporting full chests

Post by BlackKnight » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:24 pm

Great idea, this would be perfect as a mod I can imagine. I know there are a few out there that compress/convert many items into new, individual items for transport or just for compacting space (larger stacks) in the players inventory.

nljr
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Hand-Truck for moving full boxes

Post by nljr » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:59 am

TL;DR
A hand-truck / dolly / stack truck / sack truck would improve my quality of life.
What ?
It would be an item that could be applied to a full chest, similar to a repair tool. The effect would be to create a mobile (vehicle) version of the chest that the player could move to its new location with all contents intact. While the box was being moved, the contents would be in its vehicle inventory.
Why ?
Moving full boxes is the most tedious part of tweaking the perfect base. Removing tedium makes a better game. Let us focus on where the chest should be, not how to get it there.

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Re: Moving and transporting full chests

Post by Koub » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:20 am

[Koub] Merged into older topic with same suggestion
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Hand-Truck for moving full boxes

Post by nosports » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:35 am

nljr wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:59 am
TL;DR
A hand-truck / dolly / stack truck / sack truck would improve my quality of life.
What ?
It would be an item that could be applied to a full chest, similar to a repair tool. The effect would be to create a mobile (vehicle) version of the chest that the player could move to its new location with all contents intact. While the box was being moved, the contents would be in its vehicle inventory.
Why ?
Moving full boxes is the most tedious part of tweaking the perfect base. Removing tedium makes a better game. Let us focus on where the chest should be, not how to get it there.
I found the car (which you can have timely) more then enough as back-pack....
later on when the factory grew i have used a train with 4 wagons.....

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Re: Moving and transporting full chests

Post by nljr » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:42 am

The car is not a substitute. To use the car to move a chest, you have to EMPTY the chest into the car. You have two options to move things by car:

1. Repeatedly fill up your inventory and dump it into the car (and ditto the other way at the other end OR
2. Let inserters fill and empty the car.

The first is actually more tedious than just hauling it over yourself, unless you're moving great distances. The second is SLOW.

nosports
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Re: Moving and transporting full chests

Post by nosports » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:05 am

nljr wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:42 am
The car is not a substitute. To use the car to move a chest, you have to EMPTY the chest into the car. You have two options to move things by car:

1. Repeatedly fill up your inventory and dump it into the car (and ditto the other way at the other end OR
2. Let inserters fill and empty the car.

The first is actually more tedious than just hauling it over yourself, unless you're moving great distances. The second is SLOW.
If i need to move a chest without using my personal inventory i set up some blue belts and stack inserter to move the chest to the new location...
True this will need some time, but in th meantime i build and make the things which are the reasons of moving the chests. In the end not much lost of time... ;)


there are always some boundary......
Its a game and you need to overcome this obstacles, as its the core of the game...

but i would then suggest to use the big-bags mod ( i don't use this mod as see above)
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/binbinhfr/BigBags

But then it is just an excess which will take out some of the gaming of the game.... :|

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Re: Moving and transporting full chests

Post by pleegwat » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:11 pm

nljr wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:42 am
The car is not a substitute. To use the car to move a chest, you have to EMPTY the chest into the car. You have two options to move things by car:

1. Repeatedly fill up your inventory and dump it into the car (and ditto the other way at the other end OR
2. Let inserters fill and empty the car.

The first is actually more tedious than just hauling it over yourself, unless you're moving great distances. The second is SLOW.
The idea is using a car/tank/train instead of using a chest in the first place.

Darinth
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Re: Moving and transporting full chests

Post by Darinth » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:05 pm

Inserters, bots, and cars/tanks can simplify the process under a lot of circumstances, but not all. The handtruck idea that turns a chest into a vehicle you can drive somewhere and then turn back into a chest is IMO non-game-breaking, and sounds like it'd have a reasonable implementation time. Not certain it's something we'll see, given factorio is fast approaching 1.0 and I'm pretty sure Wube is leaning away from new content, but it's still something I like.

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