[0.13] Make inserter stack bonus individually configurable

[gheift]

Hello,

for some inserters I would like to set the stack bonus to zero (so have the inserter only grab one item), even if I have researched the stack bonus 2 and above.
In 0.12 the stack bonus was only applied to move items from container to container but never from/to ground/belt. So using the ground in between two containers could be used to prevent the stack bonus. This is no longer possible in 0.13.

Thanks,
Gerhard

[bobingabout]

I thought that was only the case if you were using the stack inserters. if you were using a normal inserter, it should still only grab one item at a time from/to belt/ground.

I haven't actively played the game much since the update though, I've been modding mostly.

[ssilk]

I see no use in this. The behavior has been extremly discussed some weeks ago: The normal inserters don't have any stacksize bonus at all anymore.

Maybe you can explain your use-case, so that we understand your problem?

[Zeblote]

The normal inserters don't have any stacksize bonus at all anymore.

This is wrong. Two of the stack size researches also increase the normal inserters, so after researching everything non-stack inserters move 3 and stack inserters 12.

[siggboy]

I couldn't find which of the techs give the first increase to stack size (for normal inserters). When I loaded a 0.12 save into 0.13 (where I did have all 0.12 techs unlocked) I did have a bonus of +1 for the normal inserters. But none of the techs have it in their description. The last tier of the 0.13 bonus techs actually mentions it.

Does anybody know which of the 0.12 techs does give the initial +1 bonus?

[saturn7]

The normal inserters have (almost) the same stack bonuses as in 0.12, however they now apply it everywhere, also from/to belts. This is different compared to how it was originally announced.

Sometimes it's nice to just take a small portion from a belt, e.g. for a chest for personal supply. A configurable inserter would be nice in such use cases, e.g. by limiting the stack size to 1.

@siggboy: the first bonus to normal inserters comes from the "inserter capacity bonus 2" tech.

[ssilk]

The normal inserters don't have any stacksize bonus at all anymore.

This is wrong. Two of the stack size researches also increase the normal inserters, so after researching everything non-stack inserters move 3 and stack inserters 12.

I should really play 0.13... but I have a world open...

The normal inserters have (almost) the same stack bonuses as in 0.12, however they now apply it everywhere, also from/to belts. This is different compared to how it was originally announced.

Sometimes it's nice to just take a small portion from a belt, e.g. for a chest for personal supply. A configurable inserter would be nice in such use cases, e.g. by limiting the stack size to 1.

Ajeeee.... now I understand. Hm. That speeds Factorio up a lot. But that is indeed eventually a problem, cause you cannot limit anymore, which is sometimes needed (as this suggestion says).

Edit: Thought a bit. I really need to play it, cause I'm not sure, if this is really needed. But I've a Mac and there it is overly complicated to install 2 different versions of Factorio... well, tomorrow I'll play a bit around with PlayOnMac.

[captncraig]

I would really like this. It is impossible to currently say "I want to put exactly five iron ore in this chest" with inserters as they are.

[MindChanger]

Actually changing stack size would be awesome for example for my system of loading wagons.

The problem is: if inserter got more stack size than there is space in wagon, inserter gets stuck. I created some systems that can try to fix this issue (viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28268), but it is really workaround.
But with inserter that gets items from wagon when it is stuck got amount of items limited to one it would be a lot simpliet to create system for loading wagons without much efffort.

[Neotix]

Filter Stack Inserter could have ability to control amount of holding items.
When we set "Stack Control" option and send to inserter signal Iron plate = 5 then it's mean that inserter will grab only 5 Iron plate. Of course when we send signal Iron plate = 100 but inserter can hold only 13 items then he will grab only 13.
Additionally this option will force inserter to wait until hold selected amount of items. That will prevent breaking setup when belt is no saturated or chest don't have enough items.

In that way we have only one inserter with that ability and it stil need combinators if we want to control it better or use it for mixed items.

[Hammerchief]

I don't really see reason why we have stack bonuses on non-stack inserters. Because of this there are needed some crazy workarounds to load exact number of items and inserters feels much the same. I liked the idea presented in one of the FFF - that the stack inserters will always wait for full stack and normal inserters will just grab one item at the time. This seems like meaningful differentiation. I'm not sure if stack inserters not unloading at all if they don't get full stack would be right, but they should at least wait longer for items (like 10 sec or so) with possibility to enforce unloading sooner by circuit networks. Technology can then provide larger stack sizes for stack inserters and greater speeds for non-stack inserters. We could count items simply by using non-stack inserter and inserters would have really differrent areas of use instead of todays "fast has bigger throughput than normal and stack has bigger throughput than fast".

[MeduSalem]

That we can't control even the easiest item flow anymore is very hampering the practical usefulness of circuit networks currently. So threads like this get my vote up.

Filter Stack Inserter could have ability to control amount of holding items.
When we set "Stack Control" option and send to inserter signal Iron plate = 5 then it's mean that inserter will grab only 5 Iron plate. Of course when we send signal Iron plate = 100 but inserter can hold only 13 items then he will grab only 13.
Additionally this option will force inserter to wait until hold selected amount of items. That will prevent breaking setup when belt is no saturated or chest don't have enough items.

In that way we have only one inserter with that ability and it stil need combinators if we want to control it better or use it for mixed items.

That's how it should be done. Seriously.

Would be pretty much future prove. It would even work with regular filter inserters... and each filter signal specifies its own amount of holding items. So it could look like that for example:

Filter Signal 1: Iron Ore = 3
Filter Signal 2: Copper Ore = 1
Filter Signal 3: Stone = 2
Filter Signal 4: Unmapped
Filter Signal 5: Unmapped

So if the first item the inserter encounters is Iron Ore it will wait until it has 3 Iron ore before moving. If first item to grab is Copper Ore it will grab 1 copper Ore, if first item to grab is Stone it will grab 2 Stone it will wait until 2 stone, and so on... I guess you get the idea.

(On a side note: Is there any practical reason why Filter Stack Inserters only have 1 filter slot compared to the 5 slots of regular Filter Inserters? The inconsistence somehow feels weird.)

[Ranakastrasz]

You could make inserters check for room at the target chest, similar to robots. That is, multiple inserters would each register how much would be there once all inserters finish dropping their current load. Limiting stack size and blocking it totally if it hits capacity. Robots admittedly have the overkill issue.
That would solve part of the problem. The other part would probably require some method of setting item limits in chests. Like train wagons, or Hotbar. I think that might work at least.

Just limiting stack size would technically work, but unless it is changeable via circuit network, it would slow things down a lot if used. Need smart limiters instead

[MindChanger]

My proposition is to set stack pick-up size based on signal amount for item type.
If signal is bigger than inserter's capacity then it picks max inserter capacity.

I think this solution is not so hard to implement and has several use-cases, for example to load specific amount of items or to create really simple wagon inserter (sorry for this example, but it is great example for me. System detects loading inserter is stuck > signal with amount of "stucked" items goes to unloading inserter > insterter gets amount of stuck items, so the loading inserter can insert whole number).

[ssilk]

It would even work with regular filter inserters... and each filter signal specifies its own amount of holding items. So it could look like that for example:

Filter Signal 1: Iron Ore = 3
Filter Signal 2: Copper Ore = 1
Filter Signal 3: Stone = 2
Filter Signal 4: Unmapped
Filter Signal 5: Unmapped

So if the first item the inserter encounters is Iron Ore it will wait until it has 3 Iron ore before moving. If first item to grab is Copper Ore it will grab 1 copper Ore, if first item to grab is Stone it will grab 2 Stone it will wait until 2 stone, and so on... I guess you get the idea.

I like that, cause it's just an extension to the filters. Simple, slim and easy to understand.

[MindChanger]

It would even work with regular filter inserters... and each filter signal specifies its own amount of holding items. So it could look like that for example:

Filter Signal 1: Iron Ore = 3
Filter Signal 2: Copper Ore = 1
Filter Signal 3: Stone = 2
Filter Signal 4: Unmapped
Filter Signal 5: Unmapped

So if the first item the inserter encounters is Iron Ore it will wait until it has 3 Iron ore before moving. If first item to grab is Copper Ore it will grab 1 copper Ore, if first item to grab is Stone it will grab 2 Stone it will wait until 2 stone, and so on... I guess you get the idea.

I like that, cause it's just an extension to the filters. Simple, slim and easy to understand.

This will hardly work with belts I think, as it can be sometimes hard to get 3 irons at once to be picked up

[ssilk]

Examples?

[siggboy]

Filter Stack Inserter could have ability to control amount of holding items.

... and each filter signal specifies its own amount of holding items. So it could look like that for example:
Filter Signal 1: Iron Ore = 3
Filter Signal 2: Copper Ore = 1

Yes, that's a very reasonable approach. It should probably behind an option, though (checkbox such as "limit stack bonus to signal values").

(On a side note: Is there any practical reason why Filter Stack Inserters only have 1 filter slot compared to the 5 slots of regular Filter Inserters? The inconsistence somehow feels weird.)

Probably they didn't want to give another inserter besides the Filter Inserter the full 5 slots, so the Filter Inserter would have some unique capability.

I agree that it's rather arbitrary, especially now that the Stack inserters have their own research anyway, and due to the name and cost of the Stack Filter inserter. It doesn't make much sense that it can only filter 1 item.

[MindChanger]

Examples?

For example we want to pick 3 iron plates for chest.
Iron plates goes straight from Furnace, let's say 1 plate for 2 sec.
Then it will never stack to 3 amount at once without loop.

But using my idea it is quite simple. We check "what we need in box" and tell that to inserter. Inserter will get signal 3 if 3 items are needed and will pick up up to 3 items, but can pick 2 or 1.
Signal with every insert changes and tells inserter to pick less and less, down to 0.

[ssilk]

Examples?

For example we want to pick 3 iron plates for chest.
Iron plates goes straight from Furnace, let's say 1 plate for 2 sec.
Then it will never stack to 3 amount at once without loop.

Ah. My thought was, that - obviously - when we set the filter like so, the inserter will move only (!) when the right number of item is grabbed.
In other word: If I set iron=3 it picks up 3 iron and moves then. No matter how long that will last.

If we don't do this exactly like so, some useful builts aren't possible or only with some ugly tweaks.