The Electric network infoscreen is counter-intuitive

[ash1803]

I'm a new Factorio user and I really enjoying the creativity and complexity it provides, thanks.

However I've played about 10-15 hours and only know do I realise I completely misunderstood the Electricity network infoscreen.
I'm talking about this screen: https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... infoscreen

Today I noticed the electical Inserters where regularly missing resources on the conveyor belt, why?

After a bit of googling I read that it was due to not enough electricity. But surely that cannot be correct. On my Electricity network infoscreen the Consumption meter is still at about 25% full. Therefore I am only consuming about 25% right? Wrong!

Thye text on the above wiki page "explains" my mistake: "This bar should always be full. Otherwise, it means your production is too low compared to the needed consumption."

I have to say this explanation and the Consumption meter itself is completely counter intertuitive to me (and many others, as I've read on Reddit etc).

A meter with a label "Consumption", when near full, should indicate maximal consumption and when near empty indicate minimal consumption. The meter currently seems to indicate the complete opposite.

The fundamental thing I need to know from this screen is: What percentage of my electricty producing capacity am I actually using right now?

This would very simply let us know how soon we will need to plan/build a new electricty supply.

My suggestion is to just have a single meter that shows actual percentage consumption of the electricty network.

This meter would simply fill from left to right as the network electricty usage increases. If the meter is ever completely full, it indicates all electricty produced is being used and I would expect slowdown of interters, research, manufacturing etc and blackouts.

If I build a new steam engine or solar panels on that network, the meter will reduce by a relevant amount. Simple.

This "percentage usage meter" would not need this to remove/replace whats already there. Instead I just suggest this as a addition to the Electric network infoscreen (hopefully at the top).

Thanks for reading/considering.

[deepdriller]

How is this different from the production meter?

[ash1803]

deepdriller, Ok, so it seems the Production meter has the exact reverse problem.

If I want to know how much electricity I'm currently producing, I'd expect that the larger the value shown by the Production meter, the more electricity I'm producing (it's labelled Production). But it seems from what you're saying and what the wiki says that the Production meter actually shows the usage, in other words Consumption.

I'm pretty sure that this screen could/does provide the infromation I'm after. However it just isn't very clear to me (as a newer player).

[deepdriller]

[...}I'd expect that the larger the value shown by the Production meter, the more electricity I'm producing (it's labelled Production)..

That's exactly what it's doing. Consumption is showing usage. Why would you expect otherwise?

[ash1803]

Sorry, I think were getting confused here.

If I see a bar labelled Consumption I expect that the longer the bar, the more I am using (consuming). Therefore a full bar = bad.
But the wiki says: "What are the current consumption demands. This bar should always be full."

Likewise, if I see a bar labelled Production I expect that the longer the bar, the more I am producing. Therefore a full bar = good.
But the wiki says: "What is the current production amount. This bar should never be full."

Does that make it clearer where I am coming from?

I may be completely misunderstanding something, if I am feel free to clarify.

[oLaudix]

The fundamental thing I need to know from this screen is: What percentage of my electricty producing capacity am I actually using right now?

Its impossible to know this with steam engines since its impossible to know how many boilers you have ergo impossible to know what max efficiency of said steam engine is. The bars hows how much energy you are producing right now. Green bar means its ok, red bar means its bad. I dont understand the confusion.

[ash1803]

oLaudix. Interesting point. Would that then also apply to the entire electricity network too? I'm interested in the Electric network infoscreen, not a specific steam engine.

I understand that red means bad, green good. I'm asking about the length of the bars and how I find that confusing.

Maybe the Consumption and Production meters are displayed this way for good practical/technical reasons. If anyone could explain that would be great.

[Zeblote]

Its impossible to know this with steam engines since its impossible to know how many boilers you have ergo impossible to know what max efficiency of said steam engine is.

Huh? Of course that is possible. Someone just has to write code that does it.

[oLaudix]

Huh? Of course that is possible. Someone just has to write code that does it.

You would have to detect how much fuel each connected boiler gets, how much water it gets etc etc. How would you detect how much fuel is getting to the boilers? What if the boiler gets one coal per 1 minute? what if it changes do 1 every 30 seconds in the meantime and goes back to 1 per minute again 10 seconds later? Its impossible to know. It is much more practical to just show how much energy is factory consuming at any given time.

[bobucles]

You don't have to detect EVERYTHING. You just have to detect the temperature of the water inside the engines right now. If the temperature is at 100, the engines have 100% of their capacity available. If it's lower, they have less capacity. EZPZ. Display that percentage and players will be able to tell at a glance if their power is okay or if something is lacking.

[Zeblote]

Huh? Of course that is possible. Someone just has to write code that does it.

You would have to detect how much fuel each connected boiler gets, how much water it gets etc etc. How would you detect how much fuel is getting to the boilers? What if the boiler gets one coal per 1 minute? what if it changes do 1 every 30 seconds in the meantime and goes back to 1 per minute again 10 seconds later? Its impossible to know. It is much more practical to just show how much energy is factory consuming at any given time.

You can assume every boiler always has enough fuel. Otherwise your setup is fail anyways.

[oLaudix]

You can assume every boiler always has enough fuel. Otherwise your setup is fail anyways.

If you assume that, while its not true, ppl will get even more confused than now thinking they have enough power when they won't.

[lyallp]

I agree with the OP, the two graphs are counter intuitive to the first time player.

A nice simple dial or bar graph showing percentage of production being consumed (which can be calculated from the existing bar graphs by the way) would be much clearer.

The graphs (from the OP screen capture) show we would consume 4-5 times as much as we currently produce, if we could. This is fine for seasoned players who have been around the block a time or two, but soon, we will have a huge number (we hope) of new players who are going to get just as confused as the OP.

OP is not the only one that was confused. I fell in to the same trap, early on.

[voyta]

The debate about boilers etc is pointless. The meter already assumes some level of available capacity (otherwise you'd always have two equally full green bars with coal).
And yes, having TWO bars that display ONE number out of two (available production, required consumption), to imply ratio with the other undisplayed number, that's what you call user experience clusterfuck. Try to install such a control element into a train or plane and you'll end up in jail. Or burning on a pitchfork, depending on the country.

Protip: display both numbers, people will find out what they want from them. Displaying just the lesser of the two does not save anyone, who hasn't yet grasped that the actual production and consumption of electricity is always equal*. You get 10 points if you successfully misinterpret the examples below.

Production 4
Consumption 10


Consumption 4
Production 5

*we are talking electricity grid here

[VolvoxGlobator]

I also agree with OP, this is really confusing - and I am not a new player (dozens of hours). I usually play once per few months and everytime I return, I have to stare onto those two bars for some time before I understand if I have enough power or not.

It either needs an addition (uh, clutter), or overhaul to show clearly the two critical information which is needed
1/ Do I have enough power? (something goes/is in red if not, stays green if yes)
2/ What percentage of capacity is being used right now?
3/ And I have no idea how to handle accumulators in that.

I am not disputing the usefulness of the actual numbers, but to me it feels like they belong more to the detailed plot view below - which I really really love and I actually use it to see if my production is OK - the production of steam engines flattens, accumulators kicks in.

With all due respect, most of forum attenders are not a good persons to ask - they are way too proficient with and used to current GUI.

[bobingabout]

I agree with the OP, the power bars in the top left hand corrner of the power report screen... I honestly do not have a clue what they're trying to tell me, so I don't even look at them anymore, they're that counter-intuitive.

From reading this topic, I gather that there are 2 bars, Production and Consumption.
As said, I have no idea what they actually do, because they confuse the crap out of me, but given there names, this is my opinion of what they should do:


Production: There's a number next to it telling you total power being produced. This bar should always be full, not being full is bad, because not full means you're not producing enough power to satisfy demand.

Consumption: This should give a percentile indication (by comparing length) of power being consumed compared to power being produced. There should be a number next to it telling you exactly how many Watts you're using. if thiss is full, it is bad because full means you're trying to use great than or equal to the ammount of power you are producing, and are therefore in a brownout situation.

Accumulators bar can stay the same, that's actually the only one I ever look at because it's the only one that makes even a remote amount of sense.

[ash1803]

bobingabout: Yes you pretty much describe my confusion exactly. I also agree with your suggestions about how to improve the clarity of these 2 bars.

However maybe they could even combine Production/Consumption into one bar.

The new bar would show a fluctuating Consumption bar that is overlaid on top of a fixed size total Production bar. The total Production bar never changes in length, it just represents 100% the total production. However next ot it is displayed the current total production as an actual number (eg 1.8 MW). If you add more steam engines, solar panels etc, the Production bar never changes in length, the number next to it increases.

Overlaid on top of the Production bar is a Consumption bar. The Consumption bar grows and shrinks in length depending on the current consumption. It's length is always a percentage (proportion) of the production bar. If I mouse hover over the Consumption bar I get to see the actual current consumption number (eg 1.2 MW).

At night, when solar panels stop working, the displayed Production number would reduce and the Consumption bar would actually grow longer. When day arrives again, the Production number increases and the Consumption bar reduces in length.

As you can see this really would be a proportional view of your Consumption against your total Production.

I think this might be a good addition to the power infoscreen.

[LotA]

I also misinterpreted the two bars at first, and then i found out.

First think to keep in mind is that you only produce what you consume. that means your actual energy consumption is your energy production.
So the Production bar indicates how much power you consume off your total power available.
As long as you have enough energy, only this bar matters as the other one, "consumption" stay at 100%

The Consumption bar indicates the energy consumed off the total required. It means that if its below 100%, you don't produce enough electricity and it tells you how much lacks. If it indicates 25%, that means you have to quadruple your production.

[Ranakastrasz]

I also misinterpreted the two bars at first, and then i found out.

First think to keep in mind is that you only produce what you consume. that means your actual energy consumption is your energy production.
So the Production bar indicates how much power you consume off your total power available.
As long as you have enough energy, only this bar matters as the other one, "consumption" stay at 100%

The Consumption bar indicates the energy consumed off the total required. It means that if its below 100%, you don't produce enough electricity and it tells you how much lacks. If it indicates 25%, that means you have to quadruple your production.

The first thing to keep in mind is that the UI is sufficiently counter-intuitive that you have to tell people about it first so they know how it works, rather than it being instantly obvious.

I would probably set production as "Used Production" and Consumption as "Fufilled Consumption"

[ssilk]

I dunno why this little detail is discussed here. It's off-topic.

This counter-intuitive screens have been criticized many times. The devs found a provisional solution (making the consumption yellow, when missing power). This helped a lot. For more than 95% of all players this works. But it's clear since 2 years or so, that the info-screen must be rewritten. This is a big complex, because there is the need to implement own displays for modders. And other infoscreens.
Sometimes, anywhere, "when they have time".
And of course this will be fixed then. But until then I want them to invest their time into "more important" things.