Some notes about trains and tracks

Post your ideas and suggestions how to improve the game.
Post Reply
User avatar
ssilk
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10430
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 pm
Contact:

Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by ssilk » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:50 pm

I played a lot around with trains. They really make fun. :) I found also some situations, which are not so fun.

The tracks/signals
  • I think the pathfinding algorithms can be tuned: as long, as trains can only turn at stations, it should look, if a block forces one way (because of signal) in a number of blocks and assumes that for the others, too. (*)
  • the signals are really so cute and especially the lamps look really as with my old model train. But I think they should look more "this way", more like an arrow. For red signal the direction is clear, but not for green.
  • when making switches, the lines of the tracks are so fine, that it is difficult to see, that you made a dead end. On a track I had at the end a switch in two different directions, but for the straight way was one track left, which could be seen only in biggest zoom. The automatic train didn't bother, but I destroyed half of a train, when I bumped it into that dead end, cause I forgot to tell the direction. I think dead ends should look very different and when overlapped with other tracks, they should blink or so.
  • train stations should make some highlighting at the tiles in front of them, to see, where inserters can be placed. Because especially for up/down or diagonal stations this is not so clear.
  • tracks can be placed only on every second tile. This is important! Because this "grid" influences the layout of some parts!
    The following situation: you make an early miner field, and instead of making belts you put all into chests. Because you want to transport it with trains, but they are not researched yet. But you placed the chests "one tile left". This us ugly, because then when you have train, you need long hand inserters to fill the wagons or doing other tricks. I need either something which shows the "grid of tracks", or the tracks could be shifted one tile left/right, or we need fast long hand inserters.
  • sometimes it's needed to shift one track to the left/right. Think for switching to the neighbor track for some reasons, or you built the stations first and then you want to connect it but at the end you see, that the tracks are one left. Currently not possible; complicated curves needed. I think for an special s-curve track (rotating for right/left or left/right) which is especially for that.
  • the building of tracks, especially curves, is ... I hate that. I need to mention this, to be complete. :)
  • some kind of debug mode, to find problems with routing?? In the end I think that you highlight all tracks, which the train finds and the track, where the search ends is red. But I think this is complicated and very low prio.
Inside train
  • visible indicator, if train is in automatic mode or not. Yellow rotating warning-lights on the roof for example.
  • easier switching the automatic on/off, because when you produced a huge jam, you need this often.
    For example, when in automatic you need to press up/down twice to loose the automatic. At the first key it displays a message "press twice to switch off automatic.". When pressing twice it displays "auto off. Auto turned on, when you leave train". And when you leave the train automatic is restarted after 3 seconds. Only useful with the first point.
  • when entering train auto-open the train-menu (Also useful for car). Currently it opens in the the center of the screen, which is not useful, because it's over the train.
  • possibility to change the wagon/loco during ride for fun or eventually useful for fight.
  • for double-loco-trains (one loco at the start, one at the end) it's not clear, where the front is. Feels like in a car, when the reverse gear is at the place of the first. Make a visible indicator for the trains direction (back loco is red?)
  • the menu is already mentioned in other threads. For me it is not clear, where the train is heading next, "no path" should be also displayed here, because the menu is over the train, I can't change the order of stations, need the map to search station-name.
  • would like to have my "personal train". I found it really difficult to drive with a car through my factory without damage. And train give you more time. So the idea was to give a train orders, no matter how far away it is. I can bring it to my place and let it drive to another. That train could be auto-filled up with the stuff I need: plates, ammo, belts, miners.. Another type of this idea is to have something, which enables you to change the orders of every train instantly. A device gives trains new orders, when they pass, or they are just a list, like in DTTD.



(*) I had an bug in my tracks, which was really hard to understand.

I had a long track and both stations had turns (a switch, then the turn, then the station, and back to the switch, tree one way signals in the turns) to avoid the turning of the train and spare the second loco. The rest was a single track.

My mistake was, after one hour of searching, that I forgot to remove a signal in both directions at the beginning of the turn, short before the train comes into the station and directly after the switch. I'm not so sure why, I assume, because the algorithm thinks, that another train could come that way - but it can't, because the rest of the blocks are one way...
I mean the algorithms gives up too early: if he finds a signal in two ways, he will not look further?
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
Have you used the Advanced Search today?
Need help, question? FAQ - Wiki - Forum help
I still like small signatures...

kovarex
Factorio Staff
Factorio Staff
Posts: 6930
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:00 am
Contact:

Re: Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by kovarex » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:18 am

This is nice list. I will use it as reference when improving the rails (probably not this release though).

We know about lot of these problems and have plan for some of them.

For example, the problem with spacing of inserters in station, we would make it, that the inserter would always work when the train is there (It would look for nearest wagon on the rail the inserter is picking to/taking from).

Some special graphics for ending rail would help as well, but you can already check by selecting the rail nearby, and check if those arrows go both ways.

P.S. I personally miss the presignals.

User avatar
ssilk
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10430
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by ssilk » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:30 am

kovarex wrote:This is nice list. I will use it as reference when improving the rails (probably not this release though).
Thanks. It was thought exactly for that.:)
We know about lot of these problems and have plan for some of them.
For example, the problem with spacing of inserters in station, we would make it, that the inserter would always work when the train is there (It would look for nearest wagon on the rail the inserter is picking to/taking from).
Ah, well, that would help for the wagons.
I had fun when introduced trains with more wagons and forgot to move the coal-filler, and the coal was unloaded. Many coal, before I realized it. ;) perhaps a more smart inserter, which inserts only, if the destination/target is a defined entity?
Some special graphics for ending rail would help as well, but you can already check by selecting the rail nearby, and check if those arrows go both ways.
Yeah, the editor is very useful yet, with this small details, takes some minutes to understand the logic. Btw. I recommend to extend the arrows in both directions, so that it surely includes also a curve, because I think this shows its function more clear.
P.S. I personally miss the presignals.
Yes. And end signals and much more stuff from DTTD... On the other hand: we don't have stations with some tracks, we don't can turn on the middle of a track. Etc. I think bringing in that elements it's somewhere useful, but I see that more in a mod or some future. What I would find really useful now is to control the signals, trains etc. automatically. For example stop copper mines if my output storage if full. Transport many different items in one wagon, but only so much, that they can be unloaded, or a route includes also the needed items and the train signals the station, what he wants now to load. Such things could really bring many gamers, which solve weeks to make a setup, in which they make a train-calculator (input stuff in two chests and the trains transport the result to the output storage.). :)
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
Have you used the Advanced Search today?
Need help, question? FAQ - Wiki - Forum help
I still like small signatures...

User avatar
Dysoch
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:27 pm
Contact:

Re: Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by Dysoch » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:28 am

ssilk wrote: DTTD...
I might be mistaken, but i believe its OTTD. (Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe).

but i agree, pre signals should make their way into the game. But i wont work when you keep the trains the way they are now.

- Diesel Locomotive. Its a odd name. Diesel Locomotive works with a byproduct of oil, not burnables. The proper name should be Steam Locomotive.
- Add more different wagons. 1 Special for ores, 1 for finished products, maybe even 1 for alien transport (transporting aliens? it requires more buildings to capture them thou. perhaps a new way to research by capturing aliens!)
- There should be different tracks. 1 for normal tracks, and maybe 1 highspeed tracks for those long trip trains.
- When adding pre signals, the interface with trains should change, automation should be alot easier to set up. Maybe throu drones?
Image

User avatar
ssilk
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10430
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by ssilk » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:10 pm

Some more such additions:

- on the map, when two stops are on the same height, the names are overwritten, unreadable.
- see other thread: naming two stops the same doesn't give you the guarantee, that they are used, even if the tracks are blocked.
- even then: the second (third etc.) station is only used, when the first is full. The trains should do it like with the logistic chests: when a station was used, it's moved to the last place of the list of stations.
- a car should be able to drive over a signal (already mentioned anywhere)
- end-pieces. I mean in the end, the building of tracks works quite different, but until then for a first implementation an ugly graphical thing which means "end of track", so that it isn't possible to forget the very small track in a curve. Just stamp a red bar over the track or something, to show: this is end, the tracks are not connected, even, if it looks like.
- the same with blocks: when hovering a block signal all rails in the front block have red button, all before have yellow button, or something like that, doesn't matter how it looks.
- something which helps me distincting the trains and their routes. A color, a name, anything, which let me see in a station: this is a special train or a special train route, without opening his route. A pre implementation of routes which consists only of a color scheme for trains and a routing?
- a warning signal, if there are trains with routes, which didn't run for more than 2 minutes and are not waiting at a train station. To see, if something goes wrong.
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
Have you used the Advanced Search today?
Need help, question? FAQ - Wiki - Forum help
I still like small signatures...

Mashine
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by Mashine » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:22 pm

Hello people. I here the newcomer, but game was pleasant to me and I will try to add couple of ideas in it.

Here a post about the train therefore I write here:
- for trains need the tunnel (or it is necessary to make gate in walls) is necessary
- for all underground conveyors it is necessary to make more length underground as still it is possible to make elevated option of conveyors
- still it is possible to make a monorail
- also it is necessary to make bridges for itself, conveyors and the train
- still it is necessary to add arrows of the translation of ways

While everything, I thank for attention.

User avatar
ssilk
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10430
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by ssilk » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:49 pm

Hello,
Mashine wrote:- for all underground conveyors it is necessary to make more length underground as still it is possible to make elevated option of conveyors
Why do we need longer underground belts? What is an elevated option?
- still it is possible to make a monorail
? Monorail ?
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
Have you used the Advanced Search today?
Need help, question? FAQ - Wiki - Forum help
I still like small signatures...

Mashine
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:14 pm
Contact:

Re: Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by Mashine » Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:07 pm

ssilk wrote:Why do we need longer underground belts?
http://clip2net.com/s/6NlQOo
ssilk wrote:What is an elevated option?
if the conveyor is underground why not to make it and over the earth?
ssilk wrote:Monorail
why isn't present? if to make the intersection for trains, they can have an accident

User avatar
ssilk
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 10430
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:35 pm
Contact:

Re: Some notes about trains and tracks

Post by ssilk » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:17 pm

Well, to your pic: Nice, but systematic chaos is something we need to live with. :)

Elevated belt: I think the reason is just, that you then can't see, whats below that. But thats important. Currently the game has only one layer.

Monorail: Hm. It's not such a bad idea to have a monorail, which is above ground. I like that idea, because that closes the gap, what you showed with the belt chaos and it is so small and thin, that it should be no problem to see the things under the monorail.
Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
Have you used the Advanced Search today?
Need help, question? FAQ - Wiki - Forum help
I still like small signatures...

Post Reply

Return to “Ideas and Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests