Store lubricant and water in barrels.

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TransportMeister
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Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by TransportMeister »

I like to create my base as modular as possible, with an area handling all belt related stuff, an area for electronic circuits, ect. But lubricant is breaking this since it's really the only fluid (next to water) that cannot be made into something capable of transporting on belts. There was a similar post but did not emphasize on barrel usage which in my eyes is the obvious choice and fits into the game. I know it can be modded, but I'm honestly a sucker for vanilla.

To further emphasize the issue here is the production of an oil refinery module split down into the first transportable item:

Crude oil:
  • Heavy Oil
  • Light Oil
  • Petroleum
Heavy Oil:
  • Lubricant
  • Light Oil
  • Flamethrower Ammo (Transportable)
  • Solid fuel (Transportable)
Light Oil:
  • Petroleum
  • Flamethrower Ammo (Transportable)
  • Solid fuel (Transportable)
Petroleum:
  • Sulfur (Transportable)
  • Plastic (Transportable)
  • Solid fuel (Transportable)
Lubricant:
  • Electric engine unit (Transportable)
  • Express transport belt (Transportable)
Current "module" input: Crude oil, water, coal (for plastic), Iron Plate (for Flamethrower Ammo), Fast Transport Belt, Iron Gear Wheel, Electronic Circuit, Engine Unit
Current "module" output: Flamethrower Ammo, Solid fuel, Sulfur, Plastic, Electric engine unit, Express transport belt

You could argue that Iron Gear Wheel could be manufactured on the spot thus only needing Iron Plate. But there is still the need for very high tier materials as input to this module to craft the items that need lubricant. With Lubricant Barrels the "module" could be changed into the following, much simpler, which only requires "low tier" materials as input":

New "module" input: Crude oil, water, coal (for plastic), Iron Plate (for Flamethrower Ammo)
New "module" output: Flamethrower Ammo, Solid fuel, Sulfur, Plastic, Lubricant barrel

All above sounds exactly like something that would be made in an area handling oil and its products. Finally, I also added the wish for Water barrels, this is much more of a luxury problem where a factory part can be very far from a water source, simply having barrel support would alleviate the frustration of being far from the water.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by ssilk »

Use this:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =94&t=7887 [MOD 0.12.0] Fluid Barrel (1.0.0)
:)
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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by daniel34 »

ssilk wrote:Use this:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =94&t=7887 [MOD 0.12.0] Fluid Barrel (1.0.0)
:)
TransportMeister wrote:I know it can be modded, but I'm honestly a sucker for vanilla.
I think it's an important aspect of Factorio that you can't automate all items using only belts/robots/trains, like some fluids e.g. lubricant or petroleum.
You could layout the base so that every factory that uses that fluid is right next to the fluid source or make a transportable item there locally and transport that.
If you have an oil outpost you can barrel the crude oil and ship that to your processing plants, where pipes are long enough to transport the fluid to the target factory.
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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by Vin »

ssilk wrote:Use this:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =94&t=7887 [MOD 0.12.0] Fluid Barrel (1.0.0)
:)
I appreciate people suggesting things even if they're already in mods because the goal of this forum is to help make Factorio the base game better. If something is a good enough idea, it should go in the base game regardless of how well a mod can implement it. See PocketBots.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by ssilk »

Simple answer: A dev will not implement a feature, cause someone likes this here. But if enough people use a mod it will. :)

A mod, that is used often is the best prove, that a concept is good and should be in the vanilla game.
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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by Vin »

ssilk wrote:Simple answer: A dev will not implement a feature, cause someone likes this here. But if enough people use a mod it will. :)

A mod, that is used often is the best prove, that a concept is good and should be in the vanilla game.
Then why does this forum exist o.O

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by lancar »

Vin wrote:
ssilk wrote:Simple answer: A dev will not implement a feature, cause someone likes this here. But if enough people use a mod it will. :)

A mod, that is used often is the best prove, that a concept is good and should be in the vanilla game.
Then why does this forum exist o.O
For getting told that whatever you're suggesting is already a mod?

I personally rarely use mods at all. I want a feature in any game to be balanced and officially supported for me to use it. That's why I make suggestions in here.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by ssilk »

Vin wrote:
ssilk wrote:Simple answer: A dev will not implement a feature, cause someone likes this here. But if enough people use a mod it will. :)

A mod, that is used often is the best prove, that a concept is good and should be in the vanilla game.
Then why does this forum exist o.O
This forum exists to develop new ideas or discuss existing. People like to discuss such things very much (me too).
Modders take very often ideas from here and implement them as mod. The idea to have all fluids in barrels was born here and some month later or so it was available as mod.
And this forum is useful, that the devs can search for good ideas, if they want to implement a new feature.
And sometimes - but rarely (!) - ideas from here are directly implemented. But that is less than 5 of 100. :)
lancar wrote:I personally rarely use mods at all. I want a feature in any game to be balanced and officially supported for me to use it. That's why I make suggestions in here.
We all want that, but this is obviously not possible. :) My (low) sympathy for your dislike of mods, but
a) if someone suggests something, and even if everybody likes it and it sounds good and well designed, there is still a big chance, that the real implementation is sucking. That's what mods are for: Remove dead ends from the main-development.
b) this is the way, how it works since 2013: Make suggestion, make mod or try to convince the devs somehow and maybe it is then implemented.



What I wanna say is: Nice, that you don't like to use mods, but nothing changes, if you suggest ideas, that already has been implemented as mod and you are standing here with your mouse and claim that you don't like to use mods, but like to have that implemented into vanilla. ;)

In German we have a proverb for that: From nothing comes nothing. Meaning: If you don't want to use mods, cause it is hard to install, a pain in the ass to handle and so on then you're right, but if you don't use them they won't be improved and don't come into vanilla. It's that simple.
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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by Vin »

The original poster wanted to discuss an existing idea for implementation in the base game, fully aware that the mod existed. He even said so in his first post. Your link added nothing to the discussion. I appreciate that you like mods, but trying to strangle discussion about the core game is closed-minded at best.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by ssilk »

Maybe I thought it was clear, that this subject has been handled several times before.
But it seems, like it isn't that clear for others.

What I tried to avoid was a useless discussion about already discussed things. But I reached the opposite.

Well, here a list of topics (I searched only for "barrels", but I'm sure I would find much more, with other words), that handle this subject already:

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 71&t=13788 Barrels for other liquids? - also mentions, that fluids will be handled in 0.13
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=7951 More barrels use
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=5922 Why can't we fill barrels with stuff besides oil?
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=5315 Barrels as universal liquid containers/Barreling all fluids
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2341 Barrels of Fun (bigger barrels)

Related:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... it=barrels my 2 cents on the oil industry (barrels without the need of crafting barrels)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=4549 electric engines and train tiers (only a side-subject of this)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=3697 Mobile Chests/Barrels & Loader (The author wants to have something, which I call cargo-box: A box where you can put in items, like a barrel where you can put in fluids)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2893 Transport pollution via pipe and barrels (Interesting topic, where the pollution is stored in barrels).

Again: Why did I post this links? Answer: This subject is already discussed a lot.

There have been no new deep insights there, and also none in this thread. But maybe I'm too closed-minded to see that, so please tell me, if someone has new insights. :roll:

And I want to mention a bit around this: One result of the overall discussion was that we have now some mods about handling fluids with barrels. And another result I now remember was (I haven't searched for it) that there are two possible directions: Some want to use barrels, some want to use liquid tankers (filling the liquid tankers directly from the pipes - there is also a mod about that).

When we take also some notes from the devs about this subject that I think I can remember (not searched for it), then it seems to be clear, that one of both directions (barrels vs. liquid tankers) will come into the vanilla. maybe both?! Which one? Good question. When? Don't ask me! :)

All I can say (and already said it): Play the mods, to build you an opinion, then you can argue with me, others or the devs.

But discussion in this state makes no sense in my eyes - the mods makes the real.

TL;DR: Talking about it is nice, but better is playtesting it - it spares everybody a lot of time. ;)
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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by Marconos »

I like many other posters on these boards do not use mods. I only use mods for something the dev's have explicitly stated will be implemented and then still only rarely.

I really hate the posts that are "hey a mod does this, go use it." So what, the point of the posts is letting the devs know about something you want added to the game and why.

I have seen many posts here like this and everytime you, Ssilk, seem to come off hostile to the other posters and make posting on the forums an unfriendly experience. The original poster just wanted to voice his thoughts and make the devs know about it. The point of this forum, not going to the mod forum and looking to see what mods are there. So please, stop telling everyone to get a mod and just let them have their .02. Go ahead and link similar posts so they have something to reference but don't tell them that they aren't adding anything to the process. It really defeats the purpose of asking people for their input.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by Klonan »

Marconos wrote: The point of this forum, not going to the mod forum and looking to see what mods are there.
I tend to agree, this is an 'Ideas and Suggestions' forum, not a 'Is there a mod for this?' board.
Many ideas tend to get repeated, and i do think it is useful to post mods which fit the ideas theme, but saying that there is a mod is not a case for shutting down the discussion, ideas can still be thought through and added upon, outside of the scope of existing mods.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by HanziQ »

Just because the topic was discussed already doesn't mean, that a followup discussion is useless. Because of the existence of oil barrels, it makes total sense to expect, that all liquids can be put in barrels. This is something, that IN MY OPINION should be in vanilla.

Please don't tell people, that explicitly stated, that they don't like to play with mods, to use a mod for something, that makes sense to be in the base game.
Please don't tell people, that you have low sympathy for them, because they don't use mods, even though they could. It is insulting and the smile in the sentence can't fix that.
Please don't say, that a developer will not add a feature to the game, just because someone (one person for example) suggested it, or because it's already a mod.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by ssilk »

I'm really sorry, that this is seen like so.
I try to explain: I've read most of the suggestions here and have most of them anywhere in my head and at some point it becomes repeating and sometimes (sometimes!) I'm just bored or too lazy to search about the simplest terms (like "barrels" here), which everybody else can do also, it costs just 10 seconds to see, that there are dozens of posts about that subject...

It's then also really hard for me to see that and don't say "This is really old, nothing new said, btw. there is a mod, that already can to this. Try that, perhaps, you get new ideas from there, so that you can next time make a better suggestion, bye". :twisted:

But I see now, what's awaited from me for such cases; I'll try my best, but cannot guarantee that the ssilk-sarkasm is not coming through a bit sometimes (when someone suggests a "new type of inserter" for example). ;)

EDIT:
HanziQ wrote:Please don't tell people, that explicitly stated, that they don't like to play with mods, to use a mod for something, that makes sense to be in the base game.
Please don't tell people, that you have low sympathy for them, because they don't use mods, even though they could. It is insulting and the smile in the sentence can't fix that.
Please don't say, that a developer will not add a feature to the game, just because someone (one person for example) suggested it, or because it's already a mod.
Well, I normally use my words very exact; if that's what you are thinking that I have really said, I'll really have a problem. :roll:
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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by HanziQ »

I realise, that the suggestions repeat a lot, but that only means that more people want it and it should be eventually considered. The search problem is a long known thing, most people just don't seem to figure that out :) Sarcasm is also a tricky thing and might not always me understood the proper way :D

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Re: Store lubricant and water in barrels.

Post by ssilk »

@HanziQ: You saw the list of topics in the thread I linked above. And that are only the top of the iceberg here, there's another load of topics about how to transport liquids in the best way (In the General board, in the Gameplay and so on).

And to the sarcasm: it is a very thin line, but I think it doesn't make sense to do it like in other suggestion boards from other games or other software I use. I don't want to say "Brave. Good boy. Nice suggestion you have made! I put it to the 100 others. We still like you." :) I want to tickle more out of them.

And yes, sometimes it seems, that I need to be "re-grounded". Like here. I hope that is acceptable.
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