Crafting Queue Upgrades

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azoundria
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Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by azoundria »

This scenario keeps on happening to me.

I build up a huge queue of items, say 2k transport belts, 2k inserters, power lines, research, etc... Now, I realize I am short 1 pipe to finish my steam engine setup (or maybe it got destroyed). You can see where I'm going with this already?

It would be really really awesome if I can just ask that pipe to be the next thing that gets built, rather than waiting half an hour or rebuilding my entire queue.

Nirahiel
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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by Nirahiel »

Yeah, or build a factory to craft all that stuff for you :)
Player crafting should be limited to stuff you can't automate yet, or don't need to. If you order 2k transport belts, 2k inserters etc ... make a production line.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by Goddohando »

Still, he has a very valid point and I totally agree with him. It would be very useful to have.
For example shift + click to add to the start of the queue.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by Nirahiel »

Shift click is already used to craft as much as you can.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by suaig »

I think there should at least be two different priorities for the crafting queue. If you're making something that takes a while, but you don't need enough to warrant building a production line for it, then you need to make a little of something else. You have to cancel everything then redo the whole queue.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by Nirahiel »

suaig wrote:I think there should at least be two different priorities for the crafting queue. If you're making something that takes a while, but you don't need enough to warrant building a production line for it, then you need to make a little of something else. You have to cancel everything then redo the whole queue.
I placed down an assembler just to make bullets. I was manually filling it iron when needed, so I could do other stuff while my bullets were being made. Then i'd loot them manually too.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by azoundria »

Regarding the whole 'build a factory thing', a proper factory to build conveyer belts is likely to use at least 2k of conveyer belts to build. You need:
- Steam engines, pumps, water heater.
- Coal mine, conveyers to move coal.
- Iron mine, conveyers to move iron.
- Oven building to smelt the iron.
- Research to get assembly.
- Assembly for iron gears.
- Assembly for the conveyers themselves.

That is the MINIMUM! All that building is liable to take hours. If I run out of bullets in the meantime, I wont have a factory for them, so I have to cancel everything or run away from enemies for hours on end before I can craft them.

I don't understand. Are people saying that the interface should lack this feature simply because it makes it more challenging? In my opinion, the challenge should come from the environment and the interface should be easy to use.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by Nirahiel »

It's part of the survival feel :)

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by azoundria »

My opinion, it takes away from the survival feel when you can't build bullets because you are stuck doing other things. Never mind you're being chased, keep building whatever. Good thing it isn't a life or death situation...

I want to know a valid reason why you think it's infeasible for the character to postpone whatever he's doing to build bullets? It's not like I'm doing anything that can't be done already. I can accomplish the same result by manually removing each queue item one at a time and adding them back again. It only wastes my time, is tedious, and isn't fun.

I'm sure a lot of survival is about doing the same thing over and over again. This doesn't make it fun or good gameplay. It isn't engaging. It makes me want to leave the game and do something else.

As far as I understand, the queue is basically a masterplan for the character of what he wants to do next. It isn't anything physical. I'm not moving machinery around or transforming material if the queue is reordered. I'm simply saying 'new plan'. Do exactly what you were going to do, in a different order. In this case, I need the bullets now. Or I'm going to die.

Ideally it would be cool to have a page to reorder the whole queue, but realistically, all I really need is an option to queue an item after the next full item to be produced. Instead of sticking it at the end, it sticks it next in line after the item in the beginning when I hold down Alt or Ctrl (or if both those are taken, I have to hold down multiple keys at once).

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by ssilk »

I want to mention this idea: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=1143

In short: autocrafting looks, if you have enough belts, wires, whatever. If not and you are currently producing nothing for a while, it puts some work into the queue. Would be of course much better, if we had a low priority queue for that.
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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by kovarex »

azoundria wrote:Regarding the whole 'build a factory thing', a proper factory to build conveyer belts is likely to use at least 2k of conveyer belts to build. You need:
- Steam engines, pumps, water heater.
- Coal mine, conveyers to move coal.
- Iron mine, conveyers to move iron.
- Oven building to smelt the iron.
- Research to get assembly.
- Assembly for iron gears.
- Assembly for the conveyers themselves.

That is the MINIMUM! All that building is liable to take hours. If I run out of bullets in the meantime, I wont have a factory for them, so I have to cancel everything or run away from enemies for hours on end before I can craft them.

I don't understand. Are people saying that the interface should lack this feature simply because it makes it more challenging? In my opinion, the challenge should come from the environment and the interface should be easy to use.
Hours is really exaggerated, but I get it.
I had this idea long time ago, that new crafting requests would be pushed to the front of the crafting queue instead to the back of it, this wouldn't require any extra controls and would be natural.
Tomas had this argument, that "it would be strange to have the order of items in crafting queue reversed", but personally, I would prefer it.
What do you think about it?

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by azoundria »

I'd prefer if there was a key (like Alt) which would queue at the front instead of back. Going to the end is fine for most items, but there are many times I need whatever urgently and it should be prioritized. I like the order the way it is now as a default behaviour.

As an example of the exact behaviour I'm thinking: I am making 64 conveyer belts, and a whole tons of other items. I need bullets now. So I hold down Alt + Shift + Click Bullets, shift to build 5 at a time, and alt to build immediately. It will finish the 1 conveyer belt (as it's probably part-way through), insert 5 bullets as the next item, and the remaining 63 conveyer belts + the rest of the queue would go after that.

The following is a breakdown of what happens in all scenarios for better understanding of the exact algorithm/idea I'm proposing:
1) Queue is empty - the item is inserted normally.
2) The queue contains as the first item, the same item you are requesting. In this case, just add to the number that are being queued.
3) The first item on the queue is a single item that differs from the one you want to create. In this case, just add the new item to the second spot in the queue.
4) The first item on the queue is multiple of a different item. In this case, you need to split. One of that item will be finished (since it's in progress). The new item is added to the second spot. And the remaining items (n-1) would go to the third spot.

If you are inserting a chain of items (such as building a mining drill, which requires circuits) you would insert them in the reverse order. So the mining drill first, then the circuits, using the above method. (Except if the queue is empty. You need to essentially discard the alt key in this case.)

If Alt is taken for something, another option might be to use Capslock. If Capslock is on, it's analogous to shouting, so items would be queued urgently. I don't think Alt is used for anything, however.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by LoSboccacc »

if you need 2k manually created belts to startup a belt factory you are probably missing some step in your factory planning :P

a startup factory to create conveyor belts is done with drills and boxes, with you manually shipping whole stacks of coal and iron plates around.

then you build up to conveyor belt based conveyor belt conveyor factory. anything I do repeatedly I build on factories, and I have a part of non belted factories to stockpile items I rarely use but I need in bulk when I need them (walls and belts, mostly) and they work out of boxes, not continuous feeding, at least at the beginning



about that survival argument..
azoundria wrote: I want to know a valid reason why you think it's infeasible for the character to postpone whatever he's doing to build bullets?
I agree 100% on the fun points, and vould love the alt queue to front mechanicks.
but this irks me. if we want really speak about feasibility, the character is building electronic circuits while running and with bare hands :lol:

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by ssilk »

I keep thinking, that two queues are better understandable than reverse insert or so. I mean this is too complicated.

And how it could work: for normal crafting everything works as before. For high prio crafting you press SHIFT E, all is now inserted into the high prio queue.

Maybe this behavior should be reversed (SHIFT E is the low prio queue), but I need to play this and cannot imagine what is better.
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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by suaig »

Nirahiel wrote: I placed down an assembler just to make bullets. I was manually filling it iron when needed, so I could do other stuff while my bullets were being made. Then i'd loot them manually too.
And you would need to have an assembler, inserters, chests, iron plates, and power lines on hand in order to do that.
ssilk wrote:I keep thinking, that two queues are better understandable than reverse insert or so. I mean this is too complicated.
And how it could work: for normal crafting everything works as before. For high prio crafting you press SHIFT E, all is now inserted into the high prio queue.
Maybe this behavior should be reversed (SHIFT E is the low prio queue), but I need to play this and cannot imagine what is better.
I think it should be a key plus the mouse button, maybe alt+click if that's not being used for something.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by Nirahiel »

suaig wrote:And you would need to have an assembler, inserters, chests, iron plates, and power lines on hand in order to do that.
Wut ?
Just an assembler, boiler / engine, 1 electric pole and some iron plates were enough for this o_O

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by ssilk »

suaig wrote: I think it should be a key plus the mouse button, maybe alt+click if that's not being used for something.
I thought some minutes over it, why I didn't like that. Logically you are right: do something as "near" together as possible.
I think it's because the whole shift, left click, right click, control etc. is currently not consistent implemented.

If wanted I will take a deep look into that, what exactly I mean, cause currently I'm sitting before my ipad.

So, to be consequent, I need to say: before a new click-method should be implemented, the current click-system should be renewed. The target should be easy use and consistency over as many as possible use-cases.
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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by azoundria »

Just an assembler, boiler / engine, 1 electric pole and some iron plates were enough for this o_O
So your game is glitched to magically pump water in nonexistant pipes, to boilers which don't need fuel?
So, to be consequent, I need to say: before a new click-method should be implemented, the current click-system should be renewed. The target should be easy use and consistency over as many as possible use-cases.
This is true. Come to think of it, I mostly button mash when I want to move things around. Ctrl or Shift seem to sometimes not do what I instantly expect, so I just thought I'm forgetting which is which. But I do think this is still an entirely separate issue.

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Re: Crafting Queue Upgrades

Post by Nirahiel »

azoundria wrote:So your game is glitched to magically pump water in nonexistant pipes, to boilers which don't need fuel?
Ha come on ! You know what I mean when I say "boiler / engine", I didn't need to make bullets before I had already pumps and coal, because I was not making much pollution.
Don't be silly.

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